The Draco standard

[diegis]

About the Dacians/Getae as horse archers or having a significant part of their troops as cavalry, we have Thucydides and his work Peloponnesian Wars, Book II, were he said that "[Getae] border on the Scythians and are armed in the same manner, being all mounted archers".

I'm sure that most of us agree that there are no depictions of Dacians as horse-archers, and that Thucydides had Scythians in mind. Or are you suggesting that the steppe horse archers received their influences from the Dacians? I find that a very remarkable thought, especially when we usually see the influences (horse, archery, stirrups etc) going the other way around. Are you sure there's no nationalistic pride involved here? :unsure:

Hmm, no, i dont think so, thats just your own interpretation based on...well, dont know what? Thucydides is obviously reffering to Getae (Dacians) as something distinct from Scythians. I dont have time now to search about Greek chronicars (maybe Arrian?) who mention the one day expedition of Alexander the Great in Dacian teritory north of Danube, but there is said that one third of Getae army was made of cavalry.

I am not saying that Dacians teached stepes people how to ride a horse, of course not. I just say that apparition of "draco" there may be a Dacian influence, especially if we look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples...hypothesis

<<... Michael Grant: "There was a gigantic series of migratory waves, extending all the way from the Danube valley to the plains of China."[61]
according to Finley:[62]

A large-scale movement of people is indicated ... the original centre of disturbance was in the Carpatho-Danubian region of Europe. It appears to have been pushing in different directions at different times.>>

I have somewhere another source (Cambridge Ancient History) that talk about something similar, a wave of migrations started in Danube-Carpathian area that pushed in all directions at the end of bronze age - begininng of iron age.

Stepes people already used horses since quite a long time at that point, but a wave or some warrior groups of Getae/Dacians (maybe later known as Masagetae or Tysagetae) may influenced them to adopt some of their customs or symbolism, as a "battle standard", or maybe adapting that to their own customs and views.

Over time those Getae tribes was probably absorbed in the mass of locals (Iranic people, maybe some Mongol/Turkic ones too).

Here is something about the domestication of horses

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...142541.htm

<<Wild horses were domesticated in the Ponto-Caspian steppe region (today Russia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Romania) in the 3rd millennium B.C. >>

Anyway, by the time we talk about that movement of people (end of the 2nd millenium B.C.) the horse was already spread and in use in most of the Europe, Asia and even Africa (Egypt).

But as i say, this doesnt necessary means the steppe people adopted the wind-sock (sometimes without a head, just a simple wind-sock) from Dacians, it may be an independent development or just a slightly inspiration or visual inspiration from those seen at Dacians.
Another theory i saw is that the original source of inspiration may be the symbolism of godess Tiamat that spread in various ways both toward Europe and toward eurasian steppes

However, i do think that Roman "draco" was adopted under Dacian (and Thracian) influences, after an increased number of Thracian and Dacian auxiliars (later after Caracalla especially, even citizens with such origins) joined the Roman army, not long after the end of Trajan wars.
Thracians and Dacians made an important number of auxiliar Roman cavalry and existed even mistery cults as Thracian and Dacian rider that spread in Roman army at some point

http://www.bookrags.com/research/thracia...r-eorl-13/

http://www.bookrags.com/research/dacian-riders-eorl-04/