The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy?

[Frostwulf]

I had to do this in pieces as I couldn't get it to post otherwise.

When Caesar became Dictator on life (Emperor, just not officially) and had all the Roman army at his comand, just then he considered is able to attack Getae/Dacians. For this, beside those 6 legions already in Macedonia (and I assume there was some troops in Illyira as well) he send from Italy in Illyria (this is over the Adriatic) another 16 legions and 10,000 cavalrymen. Appian said he send those troops in advance of his arrival (so is possible he may come with some others too) for the attack of Dacia, first in his list, second beeing Parthia.

Again Syme as well as Gelzer say that the 6 legions of Macedonia were the ones to be used against Burebista and the Parthians.The other legions were used elsewhere, not for the battles against Dacia and the Parthians.

Antony, thinking that he should soon need troops for his own purposes, conceived the idea of transferring to himself the army in Macedonia, which was composed of the very best material and was of large size (it consisted of six legions, besides a great number of archers and light-armed troops, much cavalry, and a corresponding amount of apparatus of all kinds), although it properly belonged to Dolabella, who had been entrusted with Syria and the war against the Parthians, because Caesar was about to use these forces against the Parthians. Antony wanted it especially because it was close at hand, and, by crossing the Adriatic, could be thrown at once into Italy.

See what Nathan Ross wrote:
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/25-alli...=75#328546

Teutoni and Cimbri was a threat, indeed. But that was mostly because of the stupidity of the patricians from Roman Senate who refused to let Marius to deal with them from the first time and keep sending all kind of incompetent generals on only base that they have a noble origin. Anyway, after that Germans was more of a threat in propaganda then for real. Thats why for example Vegetius dont mention them (or Celts for that matter) in his De Re Militari.

I have to disagree about all the Roman generals(Carbo), but as far as Vegetius and no mention of Gauls or Germans:

Victory in war does not depend entirely upon numbers or mere courage; only skill and discipline will insure it. We find that the Romans owed the conquest of the world to no other cause than continual military training, exact observance of discipline in their camps and unwearied cultivation of the other arts of war. Without these, what chance would the inconsiderable numbers of the Roman armies have had against the multitudes of the Gauls? Or with what success would their small size have been opposed to the prodigious stature of the Germans? The Spaniards surpassed us not only in numbers, but in physical strength. We were always inferior to the Africans in wealth and unequal to them in deception and stratagem. And the Greeks, indisputably, were far superior to us in skill in arts and all kinds of knowledge.

Marius wasnt for sure afraid of them. And about Caesar just keep in mind he avoided the Getae/Dacians but go with no problem against Suebii of Ariovistus and even go over the Rhine in proper Germania. Just later when he became the sole ruler of Rome he planned to finally fight Dacians, but for that he assembled a huge army

Marius himself may not have been afraid:

This was his language in private to his officers and equals; but he would station his soldiers on the fortifications by detachments, bidding them to observe the enemy, and in this way accustomed them not to fear their shape or dread their cries, p505which were altogether strange and ferocious; and to make themselves acquainted with their equipment and movements, thus in the course of time rendering what was only apparently formidable familiar to their minds from observation. For he considered that their novelty falsely imparts to terrifying objects many qualities which they do not possess, but that with familiarity even those things which are really dreadful lose their power to affright. 3 And so in the case of his soldiers, not only did the daily sight of the enemy lessen somewhat their amazement at them, but also, when they heard the threats and the intolerable boasting of the Barbarians, their anger rose and warmed and set on fire their spirits; for the enemy were ravaging and plundering all the country round, and besides, often attacked the Roman fortifications with great temerity and shamelessness, so that indignant speeches of his soldiers reached the ears of Marius.

Of course the rest about Caesar has been answered, had it not been for the Gallic war and civil war, Burebista would have been defeated.

no offence my friend, but what on earth are you talking about? Alexander didnt crush anything (maybe just some crops according to ancient authors), he had a campaign of just one day over the Danube. He managed to pass the big river by surprise and so he surprised the Dacian army who retreated, evacuating a nearby town along the way. Macedonians plundered quickly the emptied town but carefully not followed the Dacians (even if those was supposedly slowed down) for a fight deeper in their teritory. Imediatly after that and before the night fall Alex take his army back to south of Danube, and then prefered to sign a treaty with Dacians instead of make any other military move against them.
And he even say publicly that Dacians must be shunned, as Orosius mentioned (using probably sources that are lost today)

So he saw and feel something that make him think twice before go to a war against Getae. This proved to be a correct decision, as his general Zopyrion, left in charge in Thracia will be killed later with all his army (30,000 soldiers) by Getae. Then Lysimachos, one of the Diadochi, was defeated twice. In last campaign he used an army as big as 100,000 soldiers according with contemporary sources (posibly an exageration, but still an army at least as big as the one used by Alex in his Persia campaign if made such impression to contemproans). Getae king was Dromichaites who used a strategy that was a masterpiece that allowed him to kill and capture all Macedonian army, including Lysimachus, with little to none losses for him.
So yes, Pyrrhus dread the Getae after all these, and tried his luck against the Romans

You are correct about Alexander, my mistake. As for the other 2, you have to be joking considering the situation both Lysimachos and Zopyrion were in. Hardly a great military victory for the Geto/Dacians over Lysimachos or Zopyrion. Politically it was a great victory, militarily, not at all.

As far as Orosius, I think he may have been speaking of Gratian, either that or he just didn't understand the situation with J.Caesar. After all he was writing hundreds of years after the fact and didn't have the resources we have today, as most of his material is derived from Livy.

I will go with Strobel or Schmitz on this, and make my own idea by comparing periods, number of troops, primary sources and battles.

You are happy to go with Strobel and Schmitz on Roman numbers but not for Dacian numbers. Can you show me anywhere where Stobel or Schmitz say anything about the Dacians being a threat to Rome beyond the provinces they were next to?