Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy?
Quote:
diegis Wrote:And Romans offer them the ultimate praise, considering them the true image of Mars, their mythical father and god of war who was born among Dacians/Getae, the most warlike race that ever existed, living in a land ruled by the same god of war.
The fable of Mars is fine, I believe it started with Virgil and grew from there(I could be wrong). The quote you use for Trajan is comical, and I mean that in a real sense. I read where it came from, a comedy written by Julian!

Julian The Caesars :
http://www.attalus.org/translate/caesars.html#320
The emperor Julian wrote this short comic sketch on the occasion of the Saturnalia, in December 361 A.D. It describes a contest between the Roman emperors, with Alexander the Great called in as an extra contestant, in the presence of the assembled gods. The conversation allows Julian to pass judgement concisely on many of his predecessors.

Quote:Stung by the taunt, since he was not deficient in eloquence, though intemperance often made him seem more stupid than he was, Trajanus began again. "O Zeus and ye other gods, when I took over the empire it was in a sort of lethargy and much disordered by the tyranny that had long prevailed at home, and by the insolent conduct of the Getae. I alone ventured to attack the tribes beyond the Danube, and I subdued the Getae, the most warlike race that ever existed, which is due partly to their physical courage, partly to the doctrines that they have adopted from their admired Zamolxis. For they believe that they do not die but only change their place of abode, and they meet death more readily than other men undertake a journey. Yet I accomplished that task in a matter of five years or so. [328] That of all the Emperors who came before me I was regarded as the mildest in the treatment of my subjects, is I imagine, obvious, and neither Caesar here nor any other will dispute it with me. Against the Parthians I thought I ought not to employ force until they had put themselves in the wrong, but when they did so I marched against them, undeterred by my age, though the laws would have allowed me to quit the service. Since then the facts are as I have said, do I not deserve to be honoured before all the rest, first because I was so mild to my subjects, secondly because more than others I inspired terror in my country's foes, thirdly because I revered your daughter divine Phiosophy?" When Trajanus had finished this speech the gods decided that he excelled all the rest in clemency; and evidently this was a virtue peculiarly pleasing to them.

Trajan never said that, it was all made up by Julian as a comedy!

Now lets talk about real history:

Quote:In the same winding tract of Germany live the Cimbrians, close to the ocean; a community now very small, but great in fame. Nay, of their ancient renown, many and extensive are the traces and monuments still remaining; even their entrenchments upon either shore, so vast in compass that from thence you may even now measure the greatness and numerous bands of that people, and assent to the account of an army so mighty. It was on the six hundred and fortieth year of Rome, when of the arms of the Cimbrians the first mention was made, during the Consulship of Caecilius Metellus and Papirius Carbo. If from that time we count to the second Consulship of the Emperor Trajan, the interval comprehends near two hundred and ten years; so long have we been conquering Germany. In a course of time, so vast between these two periods, many have been the blows and disasters suffered on each side. In truth neither from the Samnites, nor from the Carthaginians, nor from both Spains, nor from all the nations of Gaul, have we received more frequent checks and alarms; nor even from the Parthians: for, more vigorous and invincible is the liberty of the Germans than the monarchy of the Arsacides. Indeed, what has the power of the East to allege to our dishonour; but the fall of Crassus, that power which was itself overthrown and abased by Ventidius, with the loss of the great King Pacorus bereft of his life? But by the Germans the Roman People have been bereft of five armies, all commanded by Consuls; by the Germans, the commanders of these armies, Carbo, and Cassius, and Scaurus Aurelius, and Servilius Caepio, as also Marcus Manlius, were all routed or taken: by the Germans even the Emperor Augustus was bereft of Varus and three legions. Nor without difficulty and loss of men were they defeated by Caius Marius in Italy, or by the deified Julius in Gaul, or by Drusus or Tiberius or Germanicus in their native territories. Soon after, the mighty menaces of Caligula against them ended in mockery and derision. Thenceforward they continued quiet, till taking advantage of our domestic division and civil wars, they stormed and seized the winter entrenchments of the legions, and aimed at the dominion of Gaul; from whence they were once more expulsed, and in the times preceding the present, we gained a triumph over them rather than a victory.

This book was written around 98 AD, and in this chapter he mentions Samnites, Carthaginians, Gauls, Parthians and Spaniards, all very potent enemies. This is around 120 years after Burebista and around 10 years after Decebalus and no mention about the Dacians when talking about their fiercest enemies. Probably because Tacitus was worried about threats to Rome, not just threats of a locality.

Tacitus mentioned "armies" lost in Moesia and Dacia, and the reason we dont see much of his writings about Dacians is this:

<< Orosius, Historiae adversum pagano, Book 7
"I would like to tell in detail of the great battles fought by the Dacian king Diurpaneus against the general Fuscus, as well as of the extent of the Roman losses. But Cornelius Tacitus, who wrote an exhaustive history of these events, has declared that Sallustius Crispus and very many other authors established the practice of keeping silence about the numbers of the slain, and that he himself preferred to do likewise.">>

It was probably too humiliating for Romans to write about this war, especially as it ended with them paying tribute (first time in the history of the Empire) and still having the standards lost in battles in the hands of the enemy

About Julian the Apostate, well, that phrase appear in a book intended to be a satire, but is not something he made up because as I posted previously others said the same thing before (and after) him, regarding Dacians/Getae.

Like Vegetius for example. The quotes from him, were Celts or Germans appear, talk about the bravery or skill of older Romans, who win against those even if Celts was more numerous or Germans was of large build, or Iberians had greater physicall strenght.
When he mention Dacians however, he mention them as an example to be look at (and to be followed) by the Roman legions of his time, alongiside Macedonians, Spartans or older Romans. This is the part were Germans or Celts are not included
Razvan A.


Messages In This Thread
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 11-09-2012, 11:58 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 11-10-2012, 04:03 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 11-13-2012, 11:17 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 11-13-2012, 11:26 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 11-13-2012, 11:37 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 11-13-2012, 11:46 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 11-14-2012, 01:07 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by Lyceum - 11-14-2012, 07:01 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 11-14-2012, 08:06 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 11-14-2012, 08:10 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 11-24-2012, 08:59 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 11-24-2012, 09:44 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 11-29-2012, 05:56 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 12-05-2012, 07:50 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by Nikanor - 12-06-2012, 05:31 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by Nikanor - 12-06-2012, 07:56 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by Nikanor - 12-06-2012, 10:05 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 12-09-2012, 03:48 AM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 12-18-2012, 06:08 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 12-26-2012, 03:57 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by Vindex - 12-26-2012, 06:23 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 12-27-2012, 06:26 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 12-27-2012, 06:49 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 01-17-2013, 04:41 AM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by Burzum - 01-17-2013, 04:11 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by Burzum - 01-17-2013, 04:18 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by Burzum - 01-18-2013, 01:04 AM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by Burzum - 01-18-2013, 02:06 AM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by Burzum - 01-18-2013, 02:45 AM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 01-26-2013, 05:16 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 01-26-2013, 05:48 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 01-26-2013, 06:03 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 01-26-2013, 06:19 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 01-26-2013, 06:34 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 01-30-2013, 10:02 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 01-30-2013, 10:32 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 01-30-2013, 11:03 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by Macedon - 02-03-2013, 06:28 AM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 02-04-2013, 12:31 AM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 02-04-2013, 01:11 AM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 02-04-2013, 01:33 AM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 02-04-2013, 01:42 AM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 02-04-2013, 01:48 AM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 02-04-2013, 01:58 AM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 02-04-2013, 03:18 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by Lyceum - 02-05-2013, 02:01 AM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by Vindex - 02-05-2013, 02:28 AM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 02-06-2013, 02:35 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 02-06-2013, 03:02 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 02-06-2013, 03:18 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 01-01-2013, 08:04 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 01-12-2013, 03:04 PM
The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy? - by diegis - 01-12-2013, 03:42 PM

Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Rome\'s Public Enemy #1 praetor0708 64 13,539 08-08-2010, 03:24 AM
Last Post: Alanus
  rome\'s most fearsome enemy TITVS PVLLO 82 22,606 09-20-2007, 11:20 AM
Last Post: MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS
  Hannibal: The Enemy Of Rome Avatar 0 1,455 06-15-2007, 10:13 AM
Last Post: Avatar

Forum Jump: