The Dacians: Rome\'s Greatest Enemy?

[diegis]

This is part of the paragraph, the Latin part:

o superi, motura Dahas ut clade Getasque
securo me Roma cadat. ceu morte parentem
natorum orbatum longum producere funus
ad tumulos iubet ipse dolor, iuuat ignibus atris
inseruisse manus constructoque aggere busti 300
ipsum atras tenuisse faces, non ante reuellar
exanimem quam te conplectar, Roma; tuumque
nomen, Libertas, et inanem persequar umbram.
sic eat: inmites Romana piacula diui

http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/lucan/lucan2.shtml

Now lets see what is really said, first the direct translation:

O Gods of heaven, die frantic notion that Rome
may fall, in its ruin to affect the Dahans 1 and the Getans,
while I am free from care. As grief itself bids the parent
bereaved by the death of his sons, to head the long fu-
nereal procession to the tomb ; it gives him satisfaction to
have thrust his hands amidst the blackening flames, and
himself to have held the swarthy torches - in die heaped-up
structure of die pile ;

http://archive.org/stream/pharsaliaofluc...a_djvu.txt

Now the proper translation:

Shall unknown nations, touched by western strife, And monarchs born beneath another clime Brave the dividing seas to join the war? Shall Scythian tribes desert their distant north, And Getae haste to view the fall of Rome, And I look idly on? As some fond sire, Reft of his sons, compelled by grief, himself Marshals the long procession to the tomb, Thrusts his own hand within the funeral flames, Soothing his heart, and, as the lofty pyre Rises on high, applies the kindled torch: Nought, Rome, shall tear thee from me, till I hold Thy form in death embraced; and Freedom's name, Shade though it be, I'll follow to the grave.

http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/...i.htmLucan

or this:

Heaven's will be the crime
To have made even Cato guilty. Who has strength
To gaze unawed upon a toppling world?
When stars and sky fall headlong, and when earth
Slips from her base, who sits with folded hands?
Shall unknown nations, touched by western strife,
And monarchs born beneath another clime
Brave the dividing seas to join the war?
Shall Scythian tribes desert their distant north,
And Getae haste to view the fall of Rome,
And I look idly on? As some fond sire,
Reft of his sons, compelled by grief, himself
Marshals the long procession to the tomb,
Thrusts his own hand within the funeral flames,
Soothing his heart, and, as the lofty pyre

http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/602/pg602.html

Nothing about the "Dacians and the Getae will move (against us) and Rome will fall>>" but simply they would love to see Rome fall. And also Dahas is a Scythian tribe, click on the name in the link you provided, it will say a Scythian tribe, then click on the Lewis & Short.

Other things from this poem:
" When Cato falls Let Rhine's fierce barbarous hordes and both the hosts Thrust through my frame their darts!"

I read the translation from couple Romanian sources, and I do understand a little Latin (mostly due to Romanian being a Latin based language and one year i did years ago in school). So allow me to trust more the translation I present. Dahae is the Dacians, the old Dahae didnt existed anymore back then, they vanished soon after Alex the Great conquered Persia. I think is just a misunderstanding there

So Dromichaetes tricks and ambushes Lysimachus and he is a "Sun Tzi", yet when Arminius or others do the same thing, they fought incompetent/inept commanders.

Again I'll say this was a great political victory, but militarily the Getae/Dacians showed no real martial prowess, the same thing with the Zopyrion indecent. Both Zopyrion, Lysimachus and there troops were in no position to really defend themselves, being weakened and outnumbered.

Well, lets see the differences. Varus had some 25,000 soldiers, asa medium. Lets say 30,000 if you wish. Lysimachus had 100,000 soldiers.
Varus thought he march in a friendly, subdued teritory, and didnt expected any attacks (even dismissed such informations, so yes, he was inept enough). Lysimachus knew he march in enemy teritory and was prepared for battle, not to mention he was an experienced comander who was all the time near Alex the Great during his battles
Arminius was a Roman citizen and trusted Roman oficer, Seuthes (Dromichaetes general) was a foreign that needed to gain the trust of Macedonians
Arminius attack lasted several days, and a part of Roman troops (true, not a large part) managed to escape. Dromichaetes attack anihilated the entire Macedonian army (several times bigger then VArus one)
Arminius army was formed from all Germanic tribes over the Rhine (with only exception that was Marcomani in the east), Dromichaetes army was raised just from his area, which was southern parts of Dacia.
After this battles Romans send another army, with Germanicus. He massacred couple Germanic tribes, heavily defeated Arminius who barely escaped alive by playing dead among the bodies on the battlefield, captured Arminius wife and the families of most important Germanic tribal leaders and marched up and down there, up to the North Sea, bring in back the lost flags too. Just emperor Tiberius political plans stopped him to transform Germania in a province, and nevertheless Germans killed themselves Arminius and accepted the tribal kings imposed by Romans. Romans who considered is more cheaper to rule those areas like that, as it wasnt profitable for them to transform them in a imperial province
On the other side, Lysimachus was forced to cede to Dromychaetes the teritory he wished, and gived as well his daughter to be the wife of the Getae king. And since then it was never a Macedonian or Greek army to venture again against Getae.

I hope I pointed out all the essential things

Alexander and Pyrrhus are unlikely to have gotten themselves into the trouble that Zopyrion and Lysimachus got themselves into. Yet Caesar probably figured he only needed 3 legions to combat Burebista's Dacians. Considering Tettius Julianus in the words of Dio "conquered" the Dacians with around 4 legions, surely Julius Caesar could do it with 3.

YEs, unlikely as they avoided even to attack Dacians. And apparently Alex even said that publicly. Pitty for Zopyrion and Lysimachus didnt listen that
Caesar figured he need 16 legions and 10,000 cavalrymen apparently
About Tettius, all the evidence show us that he just made a simple raid at the end of the season, to surprise the Dacians. More so as it was during harvesting season here, so the Army was gathered more slowly and probably in less numbers. This alone tells you that was not a conquest attempt, just a response to show to Dacians that Romans are still able to bite back. Thats why he chose the shortest road too (but the heaviest in the same time), to go and return as quickly as possible, before some bigger Dacian army will be formed
So Tettius met just a little Dacian army gathered in a hurry at Tapae and made of parts of garrisons there and some "civlians" from that area, as the professional Dacian army was small and when was needed was reinforced with "civilians" (half time warriors half time farmes, cattle breeders, wod cutters etc etc).
Even so I doubt Romans obtined more then a maybe inconclusive tactical victory, as they turned back imediatly and come to that fantastic (but little silly for anyone with little knowledge of how armies function) story of Decebalus dressing trees in armors and trick them with this apparition of a new big army.
As one of those authors posted before said, Domitian celebrated some victories at Rome, but those was actually the loss of his legions.