02-06-2013, 06:44 PM
@diegis this is more like it.
According to Cambridge the Western part of Romania (pg.63) belonged to Hallstatt groups, in which certain urnfield influences are also found. Do you see on pg.64 of the same book where the movement began? It says pressure from west and south west which began in south-eastern Hungary, north-east Yugoslavia and south-west Romania. This very book said western Romania had Hallstatt culture, and from other sources does Hungary. Then the quote you posted:
This seems to me to be Hallstatt/Urnfield movements. If I am wrong on this, please correct me and show me how I was wrong.
Problem is it wasn't common knowledge prior to Jerome. Ausonius "might" have written prior to Jerome but he would be the only one. I haven't checked into it, but remember what Jerome said "all" earlier scholars had called the Goths Getae rather than Gog and Magog". Now with perhaps the exception of Ausonius, no one called the Goths anything but Scythian s. But again until I or someone else researches Ausonius I'm not willing to agree with you, especially since Jerome says "all", which is proven incorrect. I don't wish to pursue this unless you have proof of dates of his writings, and even then I would have to research it as I did the Theophany.
One last thing you might be interested in, do you know who Julian called "the most warlike and high-spirited of all nations"? This is the same kind of thing you put down:
Or course even though this is written as satire, these words are coming out of his mouth as opposed to making things up for Alexander, Caesar, Trajan and etc. The Caesars satire is one completely out of boastfulness, the Misopogon is not.
Quote:As you can see it was a movement of people, Dacians for Parvan, still Thracians for those from Cambridge, that are present at least at Troy. Sure, they was the center of that big disturbance and movement of people, and they pushed others around to move, but Dacians/Thracians are present for sure at Troy, at the end of Bronze Age, begining of Iron Age. And if you find ceramic (I have somewhere about some swords too) from Carpathians at Troy, you think some nearby island from Egeea called Karpatos is that far fetched to be named after their original place?
According to Cambridge the Western part of Romania (pg.63) belonged to Hallstatt groups, in which certain urnfield influences are also found. Do you see on pg.64 of the same book where the movement began? It says pressure from west and south west which began in south-eastern Hungary, north-east Yugoslavia and south-west Romania. This very book said western Romania had Hallstatt culture, and from other sources does Hungary. Then the quote you posted:
Quote:Michael Grant: "There was a gigantic series of migratory waves, extending all the way from the Danube valley to the plains of China."[60]
according to Finley:[61] A large-scale movement of people is indicated ... the original centre of disturbance was in the Carpatho-Danubian region of Europe. It appears to have been pushing in different directions at different times.>>
This seems to me to be Hallstatt/Urnfield movements. If I am wrong on this, please correct me and show me how I was wrong.
Quote:ou seem to conveniently forgot the big case you made that all the Getae=Goth thing started with Jerome/Ieroniums. You even asked me if I remember correct, to come with a proof that is not like that. And I remember I show you that before Jerome it was Ausonius who equate them, so no, the Getae=Goths is not Jerome invention and probably was considered (true or not, this can be discussed) a common knowledge back then.
Problem is it wasn't common knowledge prior to Jerome. Ausonius "might" have written prior to Jerome but he would be the only one. I haven't checked into it, but remember what Jerome said "all" earlier scholars had called the Goths Getae rather than Gog and Magog". Now with perhaps the exception of Ausonius, no one called the Goths anything but Scythian s. But again until I or someone else researches Ausonius I'm not willing to agree with you, especially since Jerome says "all", which is proven incorrect. I don't wish to pursue this unless you have proof of dates of his writings, and even then I would have to research it as I did the Theophany.
One last thing you might be interested in, do you know who Julian called "the most warlike and high-spirited of all nations"? This is the same kind of thing you put down:
Quote:Therefore do not be surprised if I now feel towards you as I do, for I am more uncivilised than he, and more fierce and headstrong in proportion as the Celts are more so than the Romans. He was born in Rome and was nurtured among the Roman citizens till he was on the threshold of old age. But as for me, I had to do with Celts and Germans and the Hercynian forest from the moment that I was reckoned a grown man, and I have by now spent a long time there, like some huntsman who associates with and is entangled among wild beasts. There I met with temperaments that know not how to pay court or flatter, but only how to behave simply and frankly to all men alike. Then after my nurture in childhood, my path as a boy took me through the discourses of Plato and Aristotle, which are not at all suited for the reading of communities who think that on account of their luxury they are the happiest of men. Then I had to work hard myself among the most warlike and high-spirited of all nations, where men have knowledge of Aphrodite, goddess of Wedlock, only for the purpose of marrying and having children, and know Dionysus the Drink-Giver, only for the sake of just so much wine as each can drink at a draught. And in their theatres no licentiousness or insolence exists, nor does any man dance the cordax on their stage. (359)http://www.attalus.org/translate/misopogon.html#359
Or course even though this is written as satire, these words are coming out of his mouth as opposed to making things up for Alexander, Caesar, Trajan and etc. The Caesars satire is one completely out of boastfulness, the Misopogon is not.
Thor
