06-26-2013, 04:47 PM
As Macedon well knows, I've argued somewhat in this theatre not so long ago and will therefore quite happily take up the gauntlet once again. 
My view is simply this, in effect....
The Polybian (and we get more detail from that period than ~150 years later, but there is no reason to think there'd been changes) century is 60 men most probably deployed 10x6, with a Centurion at one side and his Optio at the other. Just like we see in the video, I do argue for the close-formation where each man occupies a 2.5ft pace (same width as the shield) and supports those to each side so it's only a 25ft foot frontage. You don't need a whistle (the ancient battlefield is a much quieter place without tanks and explosions!) - you can shout.
What we do know from the sources (and the sources see things from a 'General's perspective and are not be able to give the soldiers') is that the manipular system is used at the macro/legion level (then deployed as 10 centuries x 6 until line is formed as my pictures in that previous thread suggested - so the system is the same).
My 'logic' :wink: and a reasonable amount of 'common sense suggests that if the manipular rotation of centuries is true (and it was written about enough that we have no reason to doubt it), then there is actually no reason that at the century/contubernium level it isn't viable in a similar manner to that the video shows. I would train them a little differently (and the centurion wouldn't be at the front for starters) and it has to work in a full line (phalanx) situation.
But yes, I will disagree - I think it's perfectly viable. My only personal experience is (as previously noted) in military (not police) riot training with broadly similar equipment, but that's as close as we can likely get I suspect. More importantly, if you can safely rotate/withdraw whole centuries, I see no reason that individuals couldn't do it. The big advantage the Romans had is a much higher and enforced discipline than now, and that can only help.
Don't need a whistle though - shouting at soldiers is enough and cornicen-trumpeting under Tribune/Legate/Consul to communicate to centuries/cohorts across greater distances.
My view is simply this, in effect....
The Polybian (and we get more detail from that period than ~150 years later, but there is no reason to think there'd been changes) century is 60 men most probably deployed 10x6, with a Centurion at one side and his Optio at the other. Just like we see in the video, I do argue for the close-formation where each man occupies a 2.5ft pace (same width as the shield) and supports those to each side so it's only a 25ft foot frontage. You don't need a whistle (the ancient battlefield is a much quieter place without tanks and explosions!) - you can shout.
What we do know from the sources (and the sources see things from a 'General's perspective and are not be able to give the soldiers') is that the manipular system is used at the macro/legion level (then deployed as 10 centuries x 6 until line is formed as my pictures in that previous thread suggested - so the system is the same).
My 'logic' :wink: and a reasonable amount of 'common sense suggests that if the manipular rotation of centuries is true (and it was written about enough that we have no reason to doubt it), then there is actually no reason that at the century/contubernium level it isn't viable in a similar manner to that the video shows. I would train them a little differently (and the centurion wouldn't be at the front for starters) and it has to work in a full line (phalanx) situation.
But yes, I will disagree - I think it's perfectly viable. My only personal experience is (as previously noted) in military (not police) riot training with broadly similar equipment, but that's as close as we can likely get I suspect. More importantly, if you can safely rotate/withdraw whole centuries, I see no reason that individuals couldn't do it. The big advantage the Romans had is a much higher and enforced discipline than now, and that can only help.
Don't need a whistle though - shouting at soldiers is enough and cornicen-trumpeting under Tribune/Legate/Consul to communicate to centuries/cohorts across greater distances.
