07-03-2013, 11:30 AM
As long as we inform the audience about the display they are presented, both types of display have their place.
The audience does not expect to see blood and death shown in the arena - though there are groups that even work with fake blood -, so they will take into account that we do not work with sharps.
As long as the blunted weapons resemble the original blades in form and function AND the fighters regard them as if they were sharps, I think we can come pretty close to what the fights would have looked like originally.
Even when showing a Prolusio with wooden weapons the fighters should consider their weapons as sharps, and act accordingly, since these fights should have showcased the martial skill of the Gladiators before the live steel fights.
Fighting to "touches" and "points" does however create a competition mind-set, where scoring a hit is considered more important then defending against an attack.
Admittedly I came to this realisation only once I started to train HEMA, focusing on military sabre of the 19th century. Here we train with original antique military sabres with dull edges and, if the right mind-set is taken, we can fence at full speed and force with only minimal protection for the hand, elbow and head.
That is why we have to view Gladiator combat as a refined martial art rather than an armoured brawl I so often see in videos online and also within my own group.
This starts with proper footwork, keeping the right distance, defending when necessary and attacking only under cover. With the exception of ACTA Archeo from France, who have pursuit this approach for years now, in most videos of Gladiator combat you see online, one combatant, and often even both, would have received a debilitating wound in the first 30 seconds of the fight.
Taking into account that the Gladiators shown in the Zliten mosaic and other iconography are shown submitting after receiving a, clearly non lethal, bleeding wound to the arm or leg, I doubt the Gladiator fights would have achieved such popularity if the bouts were over less than a minute.
In our group we strive to have the gear, apart from the blunt weapons, as authentic as possible, and we do not take extra precautions.
As the first post also asked about gear used, and I have been in charge of acquiring gear for my group the last few years I can give you a rundown of my personal pros and cons concerning available greaves and helmets.
1. Greaves
I you know someone who can work with fairly thick sheet metal you can build these yourself.
Of course they will probably look somewhat crude, and if you use a sheet that is to thin they will also be quite flimsy.
Otherwise I have found the greaves from Ancient Empire Reproductions to be quite sturdy and sufficient for our practical purposes.
I would recommend the tinned steel variant, as these are very good for the price.
The price of sheet bronze has sadly risen so much, that the AER bronze greaves are almost as expensive as commissioning a brass greave made to measure by an artisan from eastern Europe.
To be fair the European items are of a better quality and finish then the AER items from India, but that of course has its price.
It is best to commission an artisan that already has already done the item you commission, as otherwise you will have to be very detailed in your description of the item you want to have created.
Fortunately I know a few good artisans who already have already done good reproductions of the helmets and greaves from Pompeii, so PM me if you want to know more.
2. Helmets
Gladiator helmets are quite complex constructions and the first decision you will have to make is the time your Gladiators will want to display.
As a rule of thumb stay away from the current Deepeeka Gladiator helmets, as these are neither good reproductions, nor sturdy enough to cope with hard contact, since Deepeeka only uses very thin sheet metal. They also have not updated their Gladiator helmets like they did for their military helmets, so they still have all he faults in construction and proportion as their early military helmets had.
Of course if you want to do Spartacus Blood and Sand Cosplay, then Deepeeka is your way to go, as Starz used a lot of Deepeeka helmets in the first season of this series ;-)
For practical purposes I can again recommend the AER helmets, though you will have to modify the Visor if you want to allow for full frontal attacks to it.
The eye grills are quite sturdy even though they seem to be made of thin metal, but, at least with the bronze variant, they cave in a little bit instead of breaking, if hit by a frontal stab, but the problem is the inner pin, to keep the left visor half from caving inward, is just not sturdy enough and tends to bent backwards.
The original helmets have a tongue and groove joint to arrest the left visor half in the right position so it is best to attach an additional strip of metal to the back of the right visor half, to achieve this joint.
As with the greaves, the tinned steel variant from AER is the way to go budget wise, unless you realy need to have bronze.
Also, as with the greaves, helmets made to measure by European artisans usually have a better finish and quality, and feature a little more detail of the original helmets.
From AER you can get early Chiety type helmets for the Murmillo, Thraex and Hoplomachus Armaturae, which are useful for the 1st century and even longer for Hoplomachoi, as well as the Berlin type Murmillo usable until the end of the 2nd century.
The typical Provocator and Secutor helmets of this period is available as well.
All these types, as well as Pompeii type helmets of the same period can also be acquired through eastern European artisans.
Helmets of an earlier or later period will have to be commissioned, and this is why I am currently looking for good images of the late Republican, early Augustan helmets displayed in North America.
Later helmets will have to be built after iconography only, so they will always have to be considered highly speculative.
I am always happy to be able to counsel new groups on gear from my experience with vendors and artisans, so PM me if you need any specific advice.
Ever since Christian has created the Ancient Empires line of Gladiator gear in tinned, it is really not necessary to get subpar items from other vendors for the same or even higher price.
The audience does not expect to see blood and death shown in the arena - though there are groups that even work with fake blood -, so they will take into account that we do not work with sharps.
As long as the blunted weapons resemble the original blades in form and function AND the fighters regard them as if they were sharps, I think we can come pretty close to what the fights would have looked like originally.
Even when showing a Prolusio with wooden weapons the fighters should consider their weapons as sharps, and act accordingly, since these fights should have showcased the martial skill of the Gladiators before the live steel fights.
Fighting to "touches" and "points" does however create a competition mind-set, where scoring a hit is considered more important then defending against an attack.
Admittedly I came to this realisation only once I started to train HEMA, focusing on military sabre of the 19th century. Here we train with original antique military sabres with dull edges and, if the right mind-set is taken, we can fence at full speed and force with only minimal protection for the hand, elbow and head.
That is why we have to view Gladiator combat as a refined martial art rather than an armoured brawl I so often see in videos online and also within my own group.
This starts with proper footwork, keeping the right distance, defending when necessary and attacking only under cover. With the exception of ACTA Archeo from France, who have pursuit this approach for years now, in most videos of Gladiator combat you see online, one combatant, and often even both, would have received a debilitating wound in the first 30 seconds of the fight.
Taking into account that the Gladiators shown in the Zliten mosaic and other iconography are shown submitting after receiving a, clearly non lethal, bleeding wound to the arm or leg, I doubt the Gladiator fights would have achieved such popularity if the bouts were over less than a minute.
In our group we strive to have the gear, apart from the blunt weapons, as authentic as possible, and we do not take extra precautions.
As the first post also asked about gear used, and I have been in charge of acquiring gear for my group the last few years I can give you a rundown of my personal pros and cons concerning available greaves and helmets.
1. Greaves
I you know someone who can work with fairly thick sheet metal you can build these yourself.
Of course they will probably look somewhat crude, and if you use a sheet that is to thin they will also be quite flimsy.
Otherwise I have found the greaves from Ancient Empire Reproductions to be quite sturdy and sufficient for our practical purposes.
I would recommend the tinned steel variant, as these are very good for the price.
The price of sheet bronze has sadly risen so much, that the AER bronze greaves are almost as expensive as commissioning a brass greave made to measure by an artisan from eastern Europe.
To be fair the European items are of a better quality and finish then the AER items from India, but that of course has its price.
It is best to commission an artisan that already has already done the item you commission, as otherwise you will have to be very detailed in your description of the item you want to have created.
Fortunately I know a few good artisans who already have already done good reproductions of the helmets and greaves from Pompeii, so PM me if you want to know more.
2. Helmets
Gladiator helmets are quite complex constructions and the first decision you will have to make is the time your Gladiators will want to display.
As a rule of thumb stay away from the current Deepeeka Gladiator helmets, as these are neither good reproductions, nor sturdy enough to cope with hard contact, since Deepeeka only uses very thin sheet metal. They also have not updated their Gladiator helmets like they did for their military helmets, so they still have all he faults in construction and proportion as their early military helmets had.
Of course if you want to do Spartacus Blood and Sand Cosplay, then Deepeeka is your way to go, as Starz used a lot of Deepeeka helmets in the first season of this series ;-)
For practical purposes I can again recommend the AER helmets, though you will have to modify the Visor if you want to allow for full frontal attacks to it.
The eye grills are quite sturdy even though they seem to be made of thin metal, but, at least with the bronze variant, they cave in a little bit instead of breaking, if hit by a frontal stab, but the problem is the inner pin, to keep the left visor half from caving inward, is just not sturdy enough and tends to bent backwards.
The original helmets have a tongue and groove joint to arrest the left visor half in the right position so it is best to attach an additional strip of metal to the back of the right visor half, to achieve this joint.
As with the greaves, the tinned steel variant from AER is the way to go budget wise, unless you realy need to have bronze.
Also, as with the greaves, helmets made to measure by European artisans usually have a better finish and quality, and feature a little more detail of the original helmets.
From AER you can get early Chiety type helmets for the Murmillo, Thraex and Hoplomachus Armaturae, which are useful for the 1st century and even longer for Hoplomachoi, as well as the Berlin type Murmillo usable until the end of the 2nd century.
The typical Provocator and Secutor helmets of this period is available as well.
All these types, as well as Pompeii type helmets of the same period can also be acquired through eastern European artisans.
Helmets of an earlier or later period will have to be commissioned, and this is why I am currently looking for good images of the late Republican, early Augustan helmets displayed in North America.
Later helmets will have to be built after iconography only, so they will always have to be considered highly speculative.
I am always happy to be able to counsel new groups on gear from my experience with vendors and artisans, so PM me if you need any specific advice.
Ever since Christian has created the Ancient Empires line of Gladiator gear in tinned, it is really not necessary to get subpar items from other vendors for the same or even higher price.
Olaf Küppers - Histotainment, Event und Promotion - Germany
