12-13-2013, 02:47 PM
Hand drawing wire.... so painful.
I would not be as hard on Indian makers as Dan is for mail in general. I have seen several examples of mail from the late medieval period, such as the one at the Museum of London that has the 'pop tab' look. Interesting enough that one is wedge riveted and pop tab with round links that are generally pretty big. So yes they have historic mail of this type. The types of mail links themselves can be squared, oval, round in cross section. I have seen super fine mail that must have been less than 1/4" in OD and mail much larger than .5" OD. You also have some wire thickness that is very fine.
But another difference is over lap. Some are simply overlapped end to end. Rounded or flat. The rounded ones can be made to almost look like they are still once piece. I suspect they have been worked after being peened. Not all were made this way though. Flat riveted very often ends up with the pop tab look.
I literally have hundreds if not thousands of pictures of original mail, have handled and worked on who knows how many pieces as well and have seen some that is similar to Indian work. My biggest issue with Indian rings is that their riveting is done pretty poorly in general. I have to go through and re-rivet many of the links.
In fact I disagree that all mail would look like butted mail. I think it depends on what type of mail.
Now I have largely worked with medieval and modern mail so Roman I have seen but am not as familiar with so some of these observations are not the same. Roman mail tends to be tighter weaves, smaller diameter rings and such. I suspect it was pretty heavy.
Now as to lances. I suspect against most mail it would have a high chance of success. I do not have a list but I suspect I could find fare more than four examples of mail being penetrated by a lance. In fact just got four in my head sitting here so with a few hours of research I have no doubt I could triple that number. But that is really not the point of mail or armour in general. You could make armour proof everything but you'd not be able to move if you did likely.
CAC
I would not be as hard on Indian makers as Dan is for mail in general. I have seen several examples of mail from the late medieval period, such as the one at the Museum of London that has the 'pop tab' look. Interesting enough that one is wedge riveted and pop tab with round links that are generally pretty big. So yes they have historic mail of this type. The types of mail links themselves can be squared, oval, round in cross section. I have seen super fine mail that must have been less than 1/4" in OD and mail much larger than .5" OD. You also have some wire thickness that is very fine.
But another difference is over lap. Some are simply overlapped end to end. Rounded or flat. The rounded ones can be made to almost look like they are still once piece. I suspect they have been worked after being peened. Not all were made this way though. Flat riveted very often ends up with the pop tab look.
I literally have hundreds if not thousands of pictures of original mail, have handled and worked on who knows how many pieces as well and have seen some that is similar to Indian work. My biggest issue with Indian rings is that their riveting is done pretty poorly in general. I have to go through and re-rivet many of the links.
In fact I disagree that all mail would look like butted mail. I think it depends on what type of mail.
Now I have largely worked with medieval and modern mail so Roman I have seen but am not as familiar with so some of these observations are not the same. Roman mail tends to be tighter weaves, smaller diameter rings and such. I suspect it was pretty heavy.
Now as to lances. I suspect against most mail it would have a high chance of success. I do not have a list but I suspect I could find fare more than four examples of mail being penetrated by a lance. In fact just got four in my head sitting here so with a few hours of research I have no doubt I could triple that number. But that is really not the point of mail or armour in general. You could make armour proof everything but you'd not be able to move if you did likely.
CAC
