01-06-2014, 03:54 AM
George,
To answer your question and so you can understand my objection, I am trying to make a distinction. You stated:
He talks about "protostatae" and "epistatae", both terms that would practically lose their meanings in such a formation.
Do these words mean strict rank and file? As in "laid out in a grid like formation?" Straight up and down and across, like a calendar? Or did Polybius just mean an individual in a rank or a front ranker, along with the guy behind him? If so, the quincunx could still be valid. I am asking you to put your argument in context, then explain the words that form the context and tell me how they were used in other examples to mean what you say they mean. If you want to boldly state something, shouldn't you have to support it?
I am, for example, currently analyzing Procopius (6th century AD) and I found the term lochagos as officer in general, and, even worse for the chiliarchoi of the Vandals
And now the word lochagos means a captain equivalent in the modern Greek army, commanding a company, right? I get it, words change. But during the time of Polybius, the guy that was the equivalent of a General in the Achaean league prior to becoming a Roman hostage and then friend of the Aemilii Paulii, theses titles and words meant something very specific to a Greek reader, but did not always translate perfectly from Latin. In the passage in question, how many different positions within the Roman formation was Polybius describing? The soldier in the front rank, directly opposing 10 sarissa spear points, and the all the people around him, who were either of the same rank, or the person immediately behind him. In essence he ends up providing what could be the intervals in the whole formation, but the text just isn't clear enough. So what I am saying is that this part right there does not mean files and ranks were straight across or straight up and down. a staggered formation would still be possible and fit this formation. I can behind someone, directly off to side a bit, and still be considered "immediately behind that person" because there is no one else closer. Quincunx, or a more unorganized version of it, since parade grade precision in formations is reserved for parade grounds, is still possible.
To answer your question and so you can understand my objection, I am trying to make a distinction. You stated:
He talks about "protostatae" and "epistatae", both terms that would practically lose their meanings in such a formation.
Do these words mean strict rank and file? As in "laid out in a grid like formation?" Straight up and down and across, like a calendar? Or did Polybius just mean an individual in a rank or a front ranker, along with the guy behind him? If so, the quincunx could still be valid. I am asking you to put your argument in context, then explain the words that form the context and tell me how they were used in other examples to mean what you say they mean. If you want to boldly state something, shouldn't you have to support it?
I am, for example, currently analyzing Procopius (6th century AD) and I found the term lochagos as officer in general, and, even worse for the chiliarchoi of the Vandals
And now the word lochagos means a captain equivalent in the modern Greek army, commanding a company, right? I get it, words change. But during the time of Polybius, the guy that was the equivalent of a General in the Achaean league prior to becoming a Roman hostage and then friend of the Aemilii Paulii, theses titles and words meant something very specific to a Greek reader, but did not always translate perfectly from Latin. In the passage in question, how many different positions within the Roman formation was Polybius describing? The soldier in the front rank, directly opposing 10 sarissa spear points, and the all the people around him, who were either of the same rank, or the person immediately behind him. In essence he ends up providing what could be the intervals in the whole formation, but the text just isn't clear enough. So what I am saying is that this part right there does not mean files and ranks were straight across or straight up and down. a staggered formation would still be possible and fit this formation. I can behind someone, directly off to side a bit, and still be considered "immediately behind that person" because there is no one else closer. Quincunx, or a more unorganized version of it, since parade grade precision in formations is reserved for parade grounds, is still possible.
