Collapse of society ?

[Timianus]

I find "better" a dangerous word to use in this context... Seems like the 19th-century idea of "progress of civilization" to me.

I disagree with this entire concept that every civilization is just as "good" as another. Certainly, we can say that a civilization in which a significant segment of the population is literate, well-fed, well-organized, and produces fine goods, high art, music, and literature, is "better" than one in which people sit around a campfire led by shamans. That is not to say that the people in each society are better or to be more valued, but the term "civilization" involves the organization of society. I have no problem saying society A was better organized, run more efficiently, had a higher standard of living, benefitted more people, and was therefore "better" than society B.