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Centurion Position in Battle
#90
Quote:QED
It is not necessarily the personality, it is the effect of removing them that is required (or that's what my military brain tells me).
So yes, it would be fairly obvious that more than one person would be required to make sure of disabling the command structure.

Pyrrhus of Epirus was specifically targeting by a troop of Latin cavalry, so much so that he had to switch his battle armor with one of his attendants, who was then promptly killed. Mithridates of Pontus was almost killed by a Roman centurion who had ridden up and infiltrated into his group of companions. T. Labienus had a horse killed out from under him, breaking his own leg, when he rode to the front of a Roman legion to mock them only to have a ranker soldier throw his pilum at him. So it definitely was done sometimes. But I don't think it was easy or done often. In two of three cases listed above, the would be killer not only failed but lost his life in the process.

Wearing gaudy and brightly colored armor and clothing made one stand out on a battlefield, which can be a good thing on your own side for command and control, as it makes identifying to all those around you that you are to be obeyed. But it also paints a bull's eye on you by allowing the enemy to know as well who the leaders are. The question is, how easy is it to kill a man? Sam Colt, the inventor of the revolving pistol, called it the "great equalizer." I think it is telling that the modern assault rifle, far deadlier than a Colt revolver, let alone a javelin or sword, is the least deadly weapon on the battlefield today. That makes tactics such as removing the enemy's chain of command a viable and oft used option in the modern era, as shooting someone you think is a leader isn't all that hard, especially if they are foolish enough to be standing around yelling at their people while the rest are cowering in the prone. But it just wouldn't have been an easy thing to do in the ancient period.

Not only would the officer classes be well trained and well armored, in many times, they would be surrounded by competent and equally well trained killers, essentially bodyguards. So to target the officer meant also having to go at the strongest part of the enemy formation and attacking it. As an example, a centurion fighting in the front line will essentially be surrounded by the greatest fighters in his century/maniple, who will also be in the front ranks. There is no way possible, unless you have an extremely high standard for recruitment, selection, and retention (like the 1st Cohort of a Legion or a well selected Praetorian cohort), that a unit of 60-80 men will all be made up of brave killers. In reality, I think only a small portion of those will be aggressive men who look forward to casual violence and confrontation (10-30%). Scrappers. In battle, it was these men that the centurion really needed to control, as they would be the reason for success or failure. If your bravest men falter in the advance, how can you expect the timid and cowardly to move forward? (Hence one of my reasons for the necessity of the centurion being in front in battle). The rest of the men in a contested fight might be eager to throw their pila from a distance or even stab/slash at the enemy should their formation break and they start running, but I doubt all of them would be willing or able to brave the front lines to get it stuck in. Missile weapons were given to infantry exactly because of this reason, men are more willing to use them, vice cold steel (or case hardened iron in the case of the Romans).

A signifer was specifically chosen as the bravest man in the unit (Polybius and others). His duties would necessarily be dangerous but many existed to protect him, as the greatest dishonor would be to lose the standards. According to the tales of Lucius Sicinius Dentatus, the Roman Achilles, by Livy, who was awarded his first commission as Primus Pilus when he rescued the Legion's Eagle from the enemy (the story is unfortunately highly anachronistic with choose of words). As reward for his bravery, Dentatus was to replace the current Primus Pilus who had offered to resign in disgrace for being responsible for losing it, instead Dentatus turned it down and was given the Primus Pilus position in the other legion. From other sources, I can't remember which at the moment, I read that in camp it was the Primus Pilus's duty to guard the Eagle standard. This was probably also the case for other centurions as well, they were responsible for the standard, as they were the ones who chose the standard bearers. Ultimately, the signifer would also have been readily replaceable, should he die or waiver in battle, many others probably wanted the job, part of which probably meant glory with a high chance of death.

A military tribune was one of six men who for hundreds of years were the true officers of a Roman legion, as they were actually commissioned by the Senate and People of Rome, either through direct elections or by Senatorial/Consular appointments. Some of them were of the Senatorial classes, the remainder of the Equestrian Order, but those sort would be ambitious men, as the position, in any time period, would have been highly competitive. To further understand them, they came from classes that on any given day, while not campaigning, surrounded themselves with as many clients as possible as they went about their daily routine. Sometimes that meant walking around with literally thousands of men trailing you. The more men, the more powerful they were. In military campaigns, they often brought attendants, friends, servants, etc. Some brought philosophers. Others brought buddies. Maybe some even brought servant bodyguards, in the form ex-gladiators. Marius as Consul had brought gladiators with him on campaign against the Teutones in 102 BC, most likely serving in that role. We know from Polybius that in camp, there tents were guarded by soldiers. Maybe even in battle some soldiers were delegated to serve with them as a protective detachment. I doubt many in battle traveled alone.

Killing officers is a lot easier said than done.
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Messages In This Thread
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-23-2014, 05:27 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mithras - 06-23-2014, 07:45 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-23-2014, 08:14 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 06-23-2014, 08:59 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-23-2014, 09:54 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-23-2014, 10:42 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-24-2014, 12:48 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-24-2014, 08:58 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-24-2014, 04:24 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 06-24-2014, 07:04 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-24-2014, 08:11 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 06-25-2014, 08:15 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-25-2014, 08:51 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 06-25-2014, 09:57 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 06-25-2014, 09:58 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 06-25-2014, 10:06 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 06-25-2014, 10:47 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 06-25-2014, 11:16 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-25-2014, 03:36 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-25-2014, 03:50 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 06-25-2014, 04:11 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-25-2014, 04:25 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-25-2014, 05:33 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 06-25-2014, 10:02 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 06-25-2014, 10:54 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-25-2014, 11:09 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-26-2014, 08:31 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 06-26-2014, 09:31 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 06-26-2014, 09:35 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 06-26-2014, 09:49 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-26-2014, 11:07 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-26-2014, 11:13 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 06-26-2014, 11:26 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 06-26-2014, 12:50 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-26-2014, 01:30 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-26-2014, 01:54 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 06-26-2014, 04:29 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Tim NC - 06-26-2014, 06:40 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-27-2014, 04:07 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-27-2014, 04:12 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-27-2014, 04:32 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-27-2014, 05:03 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Macedon - 06-27-2014, 08:39 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 06-27-2014, 09:24 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-27-2014, 09:47 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-28-2014, 10:40 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 06-28-2014, 11:34 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-28-2014, 02:52 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Tim NC - 06-28-2014, 03:15 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-28-2014, 03:49 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-28-2014, 04:06 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-28-2014, 05:23 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-28-2014, 05:43 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-28-2014, 10:23 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-29-2014, 11:29 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-29-2014, 04:07 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-29-2014, 05:56 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-29-2014, 06:00 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by antiochus - 06-30-2014, 04:42 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-30-2014, 10:27 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 06-30-2014, 10:40 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-30-2014, 11:34 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by antiochus - 06-30-2014, 01:09 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-30-2014, 03:14 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Macedon - 06-30-2014, 04:00 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-30-2014, 04:08 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 06-30-2014, 05:48 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Macedon - 06-30-2014, 06:27 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 06-30-2014, 08:39 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-01-2014, 11:10 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 07-01-2014, 02:32 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Frank - 07-01-2014, 04:34 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-01-2014, 05:02 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-01-2014, 05:04 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 07-01-2014, 08:40 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-01-2014, 09:10 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Frank - 07-01-2014, 10:41 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-01-2014, 11:16 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 07-02-2014, 06:53 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-02-2014, 09:25 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Robert Vermaat - 07-02-2014, 12:00 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 07-02-2014, 01:18 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-02-2014, 02:30 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-02-2014, 08:37 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-02-2014, 08:50 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-02-2014, 08:51 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-02-2014, 09:34 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 07-03-2014, 08:53 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-03-2014, 11:43 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 07-03-2014, 12:16 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-03-2014, 08:48 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-03-2014, 09:32 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 07-03-2014, 09:40 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Macedon - 07-03-2014, 10:06 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 07-04-2014, 09:00 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Frank - 07-04-2014, 12:41 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Robert Vermaat - 07-04-2014, 01:42 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-04-2014, 02:23 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-04-2014, 02:34 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Frank - 07-04-2014, 02:45 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 07-04-2014, 03:30 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 07-04-2014, 03:34 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-04-2014, 03:48 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-04-2014, 04:05 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-04-2014, 05:51 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 07-04-2014, 06:37 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-04-2014, 08:55 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-04-2014, 09:03 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-04-2014, 09:26 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-04-2014, 09:35 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 07-04-2014, 09:59 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-04-2014, 10:08 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by thiswayup - 07-04-2014, 11:56 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-05-2014, 12:52 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-05-2014, 01:05 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-05-2014, 04:39 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 07-05-2014, 08:58 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 07-05-2014, 10:52 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-05-2014, 02:32 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-06-2014, 06:52 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-06-2014, 07:58 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 07-06-2014, 08:09 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-06-2014, 08:12 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-06-2014, 08:18 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-06-2014, 08:32 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Tim NC - 07-06-2014, 09:19 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-06-2014, 10:11 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-06-2014, 11:13 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-07-2014, 12:06 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-07-2014, 11:15 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-07-2014, 12:13 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-07-2014, 08:19 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Frank - 07-07-2014, 08:47 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-07-2014, 10:05 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by thomas aagaard - 07-08-2014, 01:06 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Frank - 07-08-2014, 09:39 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Tim NC - 07-08-2014, 11:08 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-08-2014, 12:56 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-08-2014, 02:37 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Robert Vermaat - 07-08-2014, 03:16 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 07-08-2014, 07:31 PM

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