09-29-2014, 07:05 AM
Quote:Mark wrote:
There are not 4 'classes', there are not 40 maniples. There are only 30; the velites are attached to the 30 maniples/60 centuries.
Polybius has four classes to a legion and 20 centurions to each class. Rather than avoid the material, I seek to address it. There is too much data in the primary sources that has not been addressed and continues to be ignored because of its conflicting nature. Polybius four classes and the 20 centurions to a class is one such issue. However, Polybius is not alone. I have a lot more data of there being an additional 20 centurions required for all emergency legions.
Mark wrote:
The velites are indeed the youngest and, therefore in most cases, will be the poorest. The system of choice, however, could easily result in a selection of a reasonably well off, but very young citizen who would serve in the velites
So you’re saying some young kid in Class I can serve in the velites? Technically, he would be classified as a classis but now belongs to the ranks of the infra classem. That goes against Roman society and makes the class structure irrelevant. And how is this kid from Class I be expected to vote in the legion’s tribal assembly? If he votes with Class I, then the infra classem are short of one vote. You need to understand how the Servian constitution works, of which Dionysius and Livy provides a detailed account.
Where, please, does Polybius say that there are four classes in a legion. To the best of my reading he divides each Roman legion into 5 'divisions' (one of which is the cavalry); only 3 of which (the 3 heavy infantry divisions) are subdivided into 10ths, each of which receives 2 centurions - the velites, specifically, are not and are themselves divided between the 3 infantry divisions.
No class distinctions (apart from the armour reference), only age.
And yes, Polybius does not mention class distinctions for choosing the divisions. By my understanding, 4,000 men are chosen for each legion - from all the eligible, plebeian, citizens. The youngest 1,000 (my previous post) become the velites - they could be of any age, but statistical results will tend to ensure they are late teens and only a little older. Nothing seems to suggest that being called to service one year changes your chances for the next, up until you have served the maximum number of years; which could, therefore, mean you were called up every year from age 17(?) to 26 (unlikely mind you) and then 'retire'.
It also means that you could be a velite at 35! But that too is unlikely, but not impossible. I, like many, dream of winning the lottery, but being a velite at a significant age (in fact serving as a velite one year, a hastatus the next and back to velite for the third call-up) is much more likely!
