05-10-2005, 12:02 PM
Hi, Danno,
I did reply to your direct message, but failed to mention a couple of points. For everyone's benefit, our experience in The Hoplite Association has taught us the following:-
The fully-closed Corinthian makes hearing commands damned near impossible. We use later-style ones with ear cut-outs.
The field of view is extremely good for a full-face helm, but makes it difficult to maintain dressing on the march without keeping the head turned to the right (which is where we place our markers). I see no reason why Ancient Greeks would not march in this manner or even keep turning the head to the right to check the dressing, returning to front -facing to check the terrain. It is part of modern military philosophy that the head must be still and kept to the front. Clearly, stillness and consistency can impress the enemy, but they are not necessary to the safety of the soldier or the efficient functioning of the formation as the avoidance of tripping and the maintenance of formation are.
A helmet that gives worthwhile protection does not have to be enormously heavy, although a good one is a noticeable weight. Dents on finds indicate that the material wasn't intended to resist blows without such damage. The finds I have seen are not very thick, compared to modern replicas, even allowing for corrosion. Thickness varies over the piece, as with all beaten armour, and the cheekpieces are particularly delicate.
We all line our helmets by one method or another - I can't imagine anyone being daft enought to wear any kind of protection for the head without some kind of shock absorber. Careful choice of helmet and liner should give such a good fit that there is very little shifting in use and the design of the Corinthian makes it less prone to shifting than other types, e.g., the pylos-helmet ( I hate the bloody thing, it looks STUPID). Even so, unless you wear a chin strap, there will still be a small amount of movement, especially when the cheekplate tips catch on your aspis, as they are apt to do until and unless you learn to take steps to avoid this.
There is evidence that the cheekplates and nasal were also lined, though not necessarily padded. The nasal will damage you if the helmet is loose on your head or is knocked onto the nose by a blow. My Viking helmet has no lining or padding on the nasal and cut my nose when I faked a headbutt to my opponent. However, the chinstrap was not done up at the time. I've done ( and taken!) some quite serious head-butting with the chinstrap in place and reckon you could do the same with a Corinthian IF it's the same gauge. Many of the ones on the market at present are not suitable for combat and I have dents in mine where my Hoplomachai has hit me with his staff for buggering up the drill. He's always picking on me - it's not as if I'm the only one who ever gets anything wrong, it's not fair, he's never liked me since I called him a Nanos , ( well, he IS short)...
Sorry, where was I? Oh, yes, wearing the thing on the back of your head can be done and looks quite flash but it DOESN'T look quite like the statues and DEFINITELY not like the illustrations in the Osprey books. The cheekpieces are so long, that part of your face will always be obscured by them, if the helmet is not to fall off. Some pictures have the bowl of the helmet depicted as behind the head; this is impossible, just ask gravity.
Pollis of Thespiae,
aka Paul Allen
I did reply to your direct message, but failed to mention a couple of points. For everyone's benefit, our experience in The Hoplite Association has taught us the following:-
The fully-closed Corinthian makes hearing commands damned near impossible. We use later-style ones with ear cut-outs.
The field of view is extremely good for a full-face helm, but makes it difficult to maintain dressing on the march without keeping the head turned to the right (which is where we place our markers). I see no reason why Ancient Greeks would not march in this manner or even keep turning the head to the right to check the dressing, returning to front -facing to check the terrain. It is part of modern military philosophy that the head must be still and kept to the front. Clearly, stillness and consistency can impress the enemy, but they are not necessary to the safety of the soldier or the efficient functioning of the formation as the avoidance of tripping and the maintenance of formation are.
A helmet that gives worthwhile protection does not have to be enormously heavy, although a good one is a noticeable weight. Dents on finds indicate that the material wasn't intended to resist blows without such damage. The finds I have seen are not very thick, compared to modern replicas, even allowing for corrosion. Thickness varies over the piece, as with all beaten armour, and the cheekpieces are particularly delicate.
We all line our helmets by one method or another - I can't imagine anyone being daft enought to wear any kind of protection for the head without some kind of shock absorber. Careful choice of helmet and liner should give such a good fit that there is very little shifting in use and the design of the Corinthian makes it less prone to shifting than other types, e.g., the pylos-helmet ( I hate the bloody thing, it looks STUPID). Even so, unless you wear a chin strap, there will still be a small amount of movement, especially when the cheekplate tips catch on your aspis, as they are apt to do until and unless you learn to take steps to avoid this.
There is evidence that the cheekplates and nasal were also lined, though not necessarily padded. The nasal will damage you if the helmet is loose on your head or is knocked onto the nose by a blow. My Viking helmet has no lining or padding on the nasal and cut my nose when I faked a headbutt to my opponent. However, the chinstrap was not done up at the time. I've done ( and taken!) some quite serious head-butting with the chinstrap in place and reckon you could do the same with a Corinthian IF it's the same gauge. Many of the ones on the market at present are not suitable for combat and I have dents in mine where my Hoplomachai has hit me with his staff for buggering up the drill. He's always picking on me - it's not as if I'm the only one who ever gets anything wrong, it's not fair, he's never liked me since I called him a Nanos , ( well, he IS short)...
Sorry, where was I? Oh, yes, wearing the thing on the back of your head can be done and looks quite flash but it DOESN'T look quite like the statues and DEFINITELY not like the illustrations in the Osprey books. The cheekpieces are so long, that part of your face will always be obscured by them, if the helmet is not to fall off. Some pictures have the bowl of the helmet depicted as behind the head; this is impossible, just ask gravity.
Pollis of Thespiae,
aka Paul Allen
