02-21-2004, 10:39 PM
Frank, I would agree that in the 'real world' there never were any 'slayable' dragons of the kind in Tolkien and other fairytales. Had there been, I am sure some remains of them would have been found by now. (Since the Bible states they cannot be harmed by men, that would explain the lack of remains, but I suppose over the ages, imaginative and convincing liars have made pretty good dragon-slayers.) Of course, simple logic too, would dictate that if giant, highly intelligent reptilian carnivores ran amok, uncontrolled by a higher spiritual form, they would have certainly exterminated the human race long before we could develop weapons that we could fight them with. Even if the rather intellectually-challenged theropod dinosaurs with brains the size of walnuts survived the Mesozoic era, we most assuredly wouldn't be here now!<br>
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I became interested in dragons totally apart from the fantasy craze, since they are mentioned innumerable times in historical accounts and curiously appear in virtually every religion around the world (plus the fact that I have always kept their more primitive relatives, crocs and monitors, as pets.) In the Bible itself, and contemporary scripture no longer in the Bible, these Reptilian Seraphs and Cherubs are never referred to as part of an 'angelic order' as you suggest, but either as 'creatures', or quite literally, as 'dragons' in the Greek, though 'fiery flying serpents' (saraphs) in Hebrew. (Perhaps 'regimenting' even the angels into a military-like rank structure is one of the things which defined Catholicism as 'Roman'.)<br>
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I find it amusing how theologians could imagine these creatures in a human form with ridiculous swans' wings sprouting between thier shoulder blades when the Bible plainly states they were of an immense size and God rode on their backs, like the people riding dragons in some D&D novels, or ringwraiths riding Tolkien's nasty Nazgul birds (turned into dragons by Jackson -- by popular demand?), in the recent LOTR films. Picturing God 'riding' on the back of a human-like angel seems a bit obscene, and I also, cannot picture a human-like, haloed angel swallowing sinners alive, which is another one of these creatures' Biblical attributes, not to mention spewing fire in the classic fairytale tradition.<br>
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Other Mesopotamian religions which closely paralleled Judaism graphically depicted what the Hebrews could only describe, and here we see their Gods riding on the backs of winged, reptilian 'dragons', though in firmly attached thrones, rather than straddling the beasts, which undoubtedly wasn't considered very god-like!<br>
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Dan <p></p><i></i>
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I became interested in dragons totally apart from the fantasy craze, since they are mentioned innumerable times in historical accounts and curiously appear in virtually every religion around the world (plus the fact that I have always kept their more primitive relatives, crocs and monitors, as pets.) In the Bible itself, and contemporary scripture no longer in the Bible, these Reptilian Seraphs and Cherubs are never referred to as part of an 'angelic order' as you suggest, but either as 'creatures', or quite literally, as 'dragons' in the Greek, though 'fiery flying serpents' (saraphs) in Hebrew. (Perhaps 'regimenting' even the angels into a military-like rank structure is one of the things which defined Catholicism as 'Roman'.)<br>
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I find it amusing how theologians could imagine these creatures in a human form with ridiculous swans' wings sprouting between thier shoulder blades when the Bible plainly states they were of an immense size and God rode on their backs, like the people riding dragons in some D&D novels, or ringwraiths riding Tolkien's nasty Nazgul birds (turned into dragons by Jackson -- by popular demand?), in the recent LOTR films. Picturing God 'riding' on the back of a human-like angel seems a bit obscene, and I also, cannot picture a human-like, haloed angel swallowing sinners alive, which is another one of these creatures' Biblical attributes, not to mention spewing fire in the classic fairytale tradition.<br>
<br>
Other Mesopotamian religions which closely paralleled Judaism graphically depicted what the Hebrews could only describe, and here we see their Gods riding on the backs of winged, reptilian 'dragons', though in firmly attached thrones, rather than straddling the beasts, which undoubtedly wasn't considered very god-like!<br>
<br>
Dan <p></p><i></i>