05-11-2006, 10:25 PM
Don't ever look to Hollywood for anything "accurate", not any time soon. Look to it for adventure, fun and inspiration [to do research on!]
Remember Hollywood is there to make massive profits off of "general public moviegoers", not bookworm, historical accuracy geeks like us. If Joe Schmoe Meathead goes to "Gladiator" and sees the soldiers and thinks "Oh, them must be Romans!", then Hollywood considers themselves successful, they dooped another goober.
Was something like "Gladiator" and "Rome" Good? Yes, for a *MOVIE* or a *TV SERIES*. That is where the "accuracy" is going to end. I certainly enjoyed both of these, but also had some fun picking apart nearly every detail I know about Roman history from what is represented in surviving Art, Archaeolgy and the past 50 someodd years of intense Academic research.
Again, the people who have spent an awful amount of thier time, energy and money on researching Rome, people like Robinson, Connoly, MC Bishop, Matt Amt...You can't deny thier hard work and academic conclusions on what we have left from Roman times. Granted, the hard truth is we will probbaly never know "everything" about Rome. In fact, much of our "kit" and gear has had to undergo a complete revamp thanks to the continued research of these people, be it Academics, Reenactors, and even "Hobbists" - I know personally my own gear and presentation that I do for a world-renowed Armory Museum, nearly twice a month, has needed to change, sometimes drastically due to new discoveries, new/better proven theories and conclusions, and near constant research and interpretation for the last 4 years I've been doing this.
Some information that was known as "truth" has come to be disproven or made "obsolete" (I hate using that term sometimes) - for example, Lorica Segmentata, what was known when the Corbridge armors were found, compared to what we've found only 5-10 years ago ("Newstead" and "Kalkriese" armors)
Groups like Ermine Street Guard, Matt Amt's Leg. XX, and even people like Dan Peterson, being the "pioneers" that they are in Roman reenacting/research, even they have had to accept and adapt to new research and finds....Roman Reenacting will always be changing, improving and improving, because we *DO* want to be as accurate as we possibly can, sometimes that is really frustrating financially and time wise, I'm sure we can all admit to that....Sometimes the gear that is available "commercially", with say Deepeeka, either starts out like crap, or just due to the monster that is Mass Production and Marketing, sometimes Good Gear turns out Bad - However, Deepeeka has made a great move in trying to absorb our feedback and research to hopefully get out better gear for us, there is even a forum for that on this board!
That shows that again, with the last 50 years of research, and hundreds of us "geeks" and reenactors are really trying to keep up with information and trying to make gear as accurately as we can afford, you can't deny that what we do IS accurate.
Compare that to Hollywood. They will justify spending 10 bazillion dollars on crap-ass gear in order to save 11 bazillion dollars to buy OK or even accurate gear. As long as the movie makes a massive profit in sales and merchandise, that is what they want. Hollywood is a Creature of Habit...What sold like hotcakes before, ceretainly must sell like crazy the second, third, forth time around. This is why we have sequels and prequels and whatnot from everything from Cult movies to cancelled TV Series. So, if "Leather" Lorica Segementata "worked" for Spartacus and Ben Hur, then surely it will work for Gladiator, because Hollywood thinks we're a bunch of meatheads...They want to convey the Gist of "Epic", and wouldn't pee on accuracy if the books were burning, because that won't "sell" to the masses.
Until that crappy additude changes, and real progress is made, not some "happy medium" like with "Rome"
(soapbox moment: In Rome, when they went to Egypt...Could somebody PLEASE show me a piece of ancient Egyptian art that shows without a doubt what the actors were wearing was what was shown on ancient art? Please? What? It doesn't exist? Ok, I proved my point), We "Reenactors" will just have to dissapoint the public when we have to educate them on what is accurate as best as we can currently tell, and what is Hollywood cheese.
Again, did you like Gladiator? Good. I did too. Is it accurate? No. Am I going to stop you from seeing another movie like it? Probably not. I'll probably give you a hard time, or I might even enjoy the movie too, but I'll know what's been researched and what's been pulled off as a fast-one. Don't deny the hard work that we've all been trying to put into this. Some people's academic careers are bent on this kind of work, and there's alot more stuff to dig up and catalog. :wink:
Remember Hollywood is there to make massive profits off of "general public moviegoers", not bookworm, historical accuracy geeks like us. If Joe Schmoe Meathead goes to "Gladiator" and sees the soldiers and thinks "Oh, them must be Romans!", then Hollywood considers themselves successful, they dooped another goober.
Was something like "Gladiator" and "Rome" Good? Yes, for a *MOVIE* or a *TV SERIES*. That is where the "accuracy" is going to end. I certainly enjoyed both of these, but also had some fun picking apart nearly every detail I know about Roman history from what is represented in surviving Art, Archaeolgy and the past 50 someodd years of intense Academic research.
Again, the people who have spent an awful amount of thier time, energy and money on researching Rome, people like Robinson, Connoly, MC Bishop, Matt Amt...You can't deny thier hard work and academic conclusions on what we have left from Roman times. Granted, the hard truth is we will probbaly never know "everything" about Rome. In fact, much of our "kit" and gear has had to undergo a complete revamp thanks to the continued research of these people, be it Academics, Reenactors, and even "Hobbists" - I know personally my own gear and presentation that I do for a world-renowed Armory Museum, nearly twice a month, has needed to change, sometimes drastically due to new discoveries, new/better proven theories and conclusions, and near constant research and interpretation for the last 4 years I've been doing this.
Some information that was known as "truth" has come to be disproven or made "obsolete" (I hate using that term sometimes) - for example, Lorica Segmentata, what was known when the Corbridge armors were found, compared to what we've found only 5-10 years ago ("Newstead" and "Kalkriese" armors)
Groups like Ermine Street Guard, Matt Amt's Leg. XX, and even people like Dan Peterson, being the "pioneers" that they are in Roman reenacting/research, even they have had to accept and adapt to new research and finds....Roman Reenacting will always be changing, improving and improving, because we *DO* want to be as accurate as we possibly can, sometimes that is really frustrating financially and time wise, I'm sure we can all admit to that....Sometimes the gear that is available "commercially", with say Deepeeka, either starts out like crap, or just due to the monster that is Mass Production and Marketing, sometimes Good Gear turns out Bad - However, Deepeeka has made a great move in trying to absorb our feedback and research to hopefully get out better gear for us, there is even a forum for that on this board!
That shows that again, with the last 50 years of research, and hundreds of us "geeks" and reenactors are really trying to keep up with information and trying to make gear as accurately as we can afford, you can't deny that what we do IS accurate.
Compare that to Hollywood. They will justify spending 10 bazillion dollars on crap-ass gear in order to save 11 bazillion dollars to buy OK or even accurate gear. As long as the movie makes a massive profit in sales and merchandise, that is what they want. Hollywood is a Creature of Habit...What sold like hotcakes before, ceretainly must sell like crazy the second, third, forth time around. This is why we have sequels and prequels and whatnot from everything from Cult movies to cancelled TV Series. So, if "Leather" Lorica Segementata "worked" for Spartacus and Ben Hur, then surely it will work for Gladiator, because Hollywood thinks we're a bunch of meatheads...They want to convey the Gist of "Epic", and wouldn't pee on accuracy if the books were burning, because that won't "sell" to the masses.
Until that crappy additude changes, and real progress is made, not some "happy medium" like with "Rome"
(soapbox moment: In Rome, when they went to Egypt...Could somebody PLEASE show me a piece of ancient Egyptian art that shows without a doubt what the actors were wearing was what was shown on ancient art? Please? What? It doesn't exist? Ok, I proved my point), We "Reenactors" will just have to dissapoint the public when we have to educate them on what is accurate as best as we can currently tell, and what is Hollywood cheese.
Again, did you like Gladiator? Good. I did too. Is it accurate? No. Am I going to stop you from seeing another movie like it? Probably not. I'll probably give you a hard time, or I might even enjoy the movie too, but I'll know what's been researched and what's been pulled off as a fast-one. Don't deny the hard work that we've all been trying to put into this. Some people's academic careers are bent on this kind of work, and there's alot more stuff to dig up and catalog. :wink:
Andy Volpe
"Build a time machine, it would make this [hobby] a lot easier."
https://www.facebook.com/LegionIIICyr/
Legion III Cyrenaica ~ New England U.S.
Higgins Armory Museum 1931-2013 (worked there 2001-2013)
(Collection moved to Worcester Art Museum)
"Build a time machine, it would make this [hobby] a lot easier."
https://www.facebook.com/LegionIIICyr/
Legion III Cyrenaica ~ New England U.S.
Higgins Armory Museum 1931-2013 (worked there 2001-2013)
(Collection moved to Worcester Art Museum)
