Rome vs Japan

[Tarbicus]

In practice, nobody fought a legionary. they fought a legion or, more often, several legions with attached auxiliaries.

Surely we can extend the single combats of centurions and tribunes to a legionary for this? Or even two centurions against an entire army?

where the gladius finds the Menpo skewering away its tip...

Nope, that was the scutum I was talking about.

stabbing down to the feet... where the gladius meets the Iron clad top of the japanese shoe... and on the shins the suneate......

Nope, that was the scutum again, not the gladius which is stabbing away at the samurai.

all this happening while the bare arms of the legionary are cut away/off by either katana, wakizashi, or he even gets killed by a well placed stab of the tanto underneath the legionaries helmet, only protected by a simple wooden cloth.....

a stab or slash in the groin area, only protected by a cingvlvm..... while the samurai is protected by his haedate and the lower part of the do......

How big's your scutum? 12 inches? :?

getting rid of the legionary shield is a piece of cake for the samurai, since his battle tactics consist of moving around very fast....... not being hampered by a heavy shield at all......

Does he spin like the Tasmanian Devil and blow the scutum away? Even medieval knights in full plate armour from head-to-toe can do cartwheels, I've seen it done. What is this assumption about the legionary finding his gear so heavy he can't be nimble? Ever played soccer? Those boot studs (large hobnails) make you very agile on grass with fantastic turning ability. Why is it the legionary can't be fast because he's wearing armour, yet the samurai wearing quarter inch rawhide or steel plate head to (literally) toe is suddenly a 100 metres racing champion and gymnast? Do you know the comparative weights of a samurai in full armour, and a (let's choose Dacian Wars as the falx keeps being mentioned) legionary in full armour?

The scutum construction i'm talking about is the 3 layered plywood type.

What happened to the glued layer of linen to bind the plywood, a possible layer of felt, and then a layer of rawhide on top? :wink:

Of course, it could also get stuck in it, in which case the shield becomes useless, and it's back to katana vs gladius.

Exactly. Legionary throws down scutum taking samurai's weapon with it, and launches at the samurai with gladius already in hand, no need to draw another weapon. And if the samurai was allowed to use his spear then the legionary was allowed to use his pilum to start with, which in practice has a far longer reach than the handheld spear, and against an unshielded opponent.

Tarbicivs, how much you like and reveer the legionary, he probably would not have lasted that long..

Actually, I have little reverence for the legionary. What I do feel is that the legionary's armour and weapons technology, trained abilities, social, mental and psychological motivations, and combat capabilities, are all shrouded in misconception and misunderstanding in this thread. In fact, I would be so bold as to say that he has ironically been "Hollywood-ised" and anachronised more than the samurai.

Much is said of the samurai's training, yet it seems to be completely ignored that the legionary also underwent daily training with double weight scutum and weapons. Also, how Japanese swords are far superior in quality, even though we are using a samurai example that was contemporary to a period when 1,000,000 were in service. How could they all have 1,000,000 swords of the quality often quoted here? How many master swordsmiths were there in Japan at that time!? Even the earliest gladius (the hispaniensis) could be pulled down from the top of the head to the shoulders repeatedly without deforming, and that was Version One in the 2nd C BCE. I have read one full and one preliminary report that has scientifically tested actual Roman plate armour, and the quality and strength is as good as medieval plate (as good as contemporary to the samurai we have here). The scutum; only the 3-ply is mentioned, yet there was far more to it than just that, and it was the sum of more parts all likely combining to make a much more vigorous whole than commonly attributed to it. The man: drilled, trained, aggressive, proud, tactically aware, professional, motivated, a skilled labourer at the least, tenacious, fit (as much as anyone in the world until the 20th C), ruthless, adaptable, sometimes reckless, had a tradition that did not exclude single combat, the list goes on. This is not reverence, this is what we can concur from the amalgam of sources we have.

It's still a fun thread :wink: Oh, and forget the cingulum, I personally believe its only use was to keep the nether regions covered under that short tunic, and make an intimidating noise.