05-06-2007, 03:13 PM
I shall try to support my "heretical" hypothesis :-
To all - whatever happened to an open mind? The reaction is exactly what I expected - howls of protest without any factual support.
To Tarbicus; I wasn't arguing that Herodotus was wrong in saying that the linothorax originated in Egypt - as usual, you have 'zoomed' in on one part without considering the whole. Always look before you leap ! a HEALTHY SKEPTICISM IS A GOOD THING and like you, I like to see things proven logically before I accept them BUT where is the evidence that the GREEK linothrax was made of linen? NIL ! ZERO !
Secondly to compare 21st century trade/economies with even 20th century patterns is dangerous, let alone ancient times , is both dangerous and ludicrous - there is overwhelming evidence that trade in Classical times was very different and far more expensive ( if only because of the risk of shipwreck) than later times.
Ergo, imported linen was cheaper than local leather.
To Giannis: I am thoroughly familiar with the thread you mention which is long and tedious on modern experimentation, and speculation, but very short on provable ancient fact!
I have seen many theses on arrow penetration versus textile armour - none agree and all come to vastly different conclusions. The thread you refer to has nothing to say about the PROVABLE construction of classical greek thorakes ,and , for example , the theory of ballistic qualities was unimportant to an Athenian citizen scratching a living from his farm - he was interested in what he could afford ( the cattle hide from his latest sacrifice) than expensive linen imports, or the theoretical ballistic qualities - unknown in his time in any event- and looking good at the festivals ( achieved by a leather cuirass covered in one layer of linen -compare gold-plated jewellery in our own time). That thread does not allow us to reach any conclusions, or even put forward workable hypotheses........
To Jason:- where is your evidence that leather is poor compared to linen as protection, especially when leather is likely to have been so much more accesible/cheaper in Greece than Linen ? The more so when so-called ballistic analyses cannot agree.....
Let's see some evidence.....
regards to all, Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Stafff
To all - whatever happened to an open mind? The reaction is exactly what I expected - howls of protest without any factual support.
To Tarbicus; I wasn't arguing that Herodotus was wrong in saying that the linothorax originated in Egypt - as usual, you have 'zoomed' in on one part without considering the whole. Always look before you leap ! a HEALTHY SKEPTICISM IS A GOOD THING and like you, I like to see things proven logically before I accept them BUT where is the evidence that the GREEK linothrax was made of linen? NIL ! ZERO !
Secondly to compare 21st century trade/economies with even 20th century patterns is dangerous, let alone ancient times , is both dangerous and ludicrous - there is overwhelming evidence that trade in Classical times was very different and far more expensive ( if only because of the risk of shipwreck) than later times.
Ergo, imported linen was cheaper than local leather.
To Giannis: I am thoroughly familiar with the thread you mention which is long and tedious on modern experimentation, and speculation, but very short on provable ancient fact!
I have seen many theses on arrow penetration versus textile armour - none agree and all come to vastly different conclusions. The thread you refer to has nothing to say about the PROVABLE construction of classical greek thorakes ,and , for example , the theory of ballistic qualities was unimportant to an Athenian citizen scratching a living from his farm - he was interested in what he could afford ( the cattle hide from his latest sacrifice) than expensive linen imports, or the theoretical ballistic qualities - unknown in his time in any event- and looking good at the festivals ( achieved by a leather cuirass covered in one layer of linen -compare gold-plated jewellery in our own time). That thread does not allow us to reach any conclusions, or even put forward workable hypotheses........
To Jason:- where is your evidence that leather is poor compared to linen as protection, especially when leather is likely to have been so much more accesible/cheaper in Greece than Linen ? The more so when so-called ballistic analyses cannot agree.....
Let's see some evidence.....
regards to all, Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Stafff
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff