07-18-2012, 07:36 PM
Dear Peter,
What is the source of your information on counting in the Ottoman army, and why should we think that these Polish observers were correct? Rhoads Murphy has done a lot of archival research on the Ottoman army, and he has found plenty of counts of specific types of troops or draft animals. I see no reference to any counts of every man and beast to make one grand total. Interestingly enough, he estimates that Ottoman armies in the "janissaries, sipahis of the porte, and timariot cavalry" phase could be up to 65,000-70,000 soldiers at the beginning of a campaign led by the sultan. Considering that cavalry are harder to supply than infantry, this fits fairly well with the evidence that ancient armies never had much more than 100,000 soldiers at any one place or time!
He has also found many cases where intelligent foreign observers vastly overestimated the strengths of Ottoman armies implied by the documents. I suspect that part of the problem is that armies with lots of light cavalry are hard to count, and part of the problem is that they were influenced by the literary trope that Turkish armies had to be countless. I can only access scholarship in English, German, and Latin not Polish but it does seem that the best way to learn how Ottoman armies were administered is to look at Ottoman archives.
What is the source of your information on counting in the Ottoman army, and why should we think that these Polish observers were correct? Rhoads Murphy has done a lot of archival research on the Ottoman army, and he has found plenty of counts of specific types of troops or draft animals. I see no reference to any counts of every man and beast to make one grand total. Interestingly enough, he estimates that Ottoman armies in the "janissaries, sipahis of the porte, and timariot cavalry" phase could be up to 65,000-70,000 soldiers at the beginning of a campaign led by the sultan. Considering that cavalry are harder to supply than infantry, this fits fairly well with the evidence that ancient armies never had much more than 100,000 soldiers at any one place or time!
He has also found many cases where intelligent foreign observers vastly overestimated the strengths of Ottoman armies implied by the documents. I suspect that part of the problem is that armies with lots of light cavalry are hard to count, and part of the problem is that they were influenced by the literary trope that Turkish armies had to be countless. I can only access scholarship in English, German, and Latin not Polish but it does seem that the best way to learn how Ottoman armies were administered is to look at Ottoman archives.
Nullis in verba
I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
