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Another new Graham Sumner book?
Quote:Whow! I would never have believed it possible to pick up a book on one day and have a debate with the author the next.

And now the artist! Smile

Quote:However, you may still be able to convince me of your position if you can actually propose a workable leather reconstruction of the Amendola cap/helmet.

There is a reconstruction of a Phrygian type leather helmet in H. Vetters 'Der Urform Der Phrygischen Mutze'. Antike Welt 16 Jg, 1985.

The main argument against the use of leather armour by the Romans is not that it was used in other periods but that it was useless! This was put forward by H. Russell Robinson in the now classic 'The Armour of Imperial Rome', 1974.

Therefore before commencing on the reconstructions, which are if you like the shop window of both the book and Raffaele's ideas, I did some background research of my own. I discussed the ideas of leather armour with the managing director of Clayton's Castleford, a traditional tannery and sent him several designs of proposed reconstructions. He was in no doubt that leather could be used in the ways suggested and that it would be highly effective. He even proposed that leather could be edged with rawhide.

I also spoke to Mark Beaby at the Royal Armouries in Leeds. He too was convinced that leather could be used as armour by the Romans. He had experimented himself with making a leather helmet and even his first attempt was found to be as hard as mild steel! He has also published his findings on leather armour in 'The Royal Armouries Yearbook 1997'.

Working on the reconstruction of the armour of Crispus I noticed the similarity of it with the Buff coats of the English Civil War. 'Arms and Armour of the English Civil Wars' by D. Blackmore, Royal Armouries. 1990 gives a useful description of the various Buff coats and their method of construction. Some still survive of course but it is interesting to note that they came in a variety of styles and thicknesses. They were not a cheap option and most were even more expensive than the steel cuirasses but were often worn as an alternative to the metal armour. The book also illustrates some leather cannon!!

Another interesting book which discusses leather armour is 'Oriental Armour' written in 1967. The author describes at length various types of leather armour and identifies some Chinese sculpture as depicting leather armour. The sculptures look just like some Roman examples. The author also mentions that some Middle Eastern leather armor was probably derived from Greco Roman examples. the Author of the book.................H. Russell Robinson!!!!

Quote:Also I have no problem with assuming that artists would be prepared to mix "realistic" and "fantastic (i.e. normally stylized rather than completely inventend) which you appear to find unlikely. To illustrate this point: Many World War I memorials (and also art from the Third Reich) in Germany show German soldiers in photorealistic Stahlhelm, trouser, boots but with naked chests and wielding swords and kite shields. Neither the artists nor the audience had a problem with this as the "shield" in particular conveys an allegorical message which could not be conveyed by depicting a rifle.

I know of an example myself. A WW1 German postcard which depicts the First Battle of Ypres but shows the German infantry in grey tunics and pickelhaube helmets but the British in red coats and bearskin hats!

All the painted reconstructions were based on exhaustive and copius research by Raffaele. Believe me I have huge folders of the material which took months to go through before even I could start painting. Aware of the possible reaction, in particular on RAT to leather armour and based on my own experience in re-enactment I did not blindly follow orders as perhaps some illustrators might have done or maybe even as Raffele would have liked. I challenged anything I was not happy about. After all how could I paint convincing reconstructions if I was not convinved myself? This sometimes meant heated discussion, took time, caused delays and generally meant Raffaele had to carry out even more research. The final results should be viewed in that light.

Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.

"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.

"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
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Messages In This Thread
Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Caballo - 11-07-2008, 05:21 PM
BOOKS - by Graham Sumner - 11-08-2008, 02:47 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Caballo - 03-22-2009, 07:38 AM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 03-23-2009, 01:27 AM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 03-29-2009, 07:24 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 03-30-2009, 05:39 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 04-02-2009, 01:31 PM
Re: BOOKS - by Robert Vermaat - 04-03-2009, 05:42 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 04-04-2009, 03:17 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Theo - 04-15-2009, 08:05 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 04-17-2009, 05:33 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 04-17-2009, 08:21 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Theo - 05-07-2009, 04:00 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 05-07-2009, 09:55 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 05-24-2009, 05:10 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 05-25-2009, 09:52 AM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 05-28-2009, 08:56 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Theo - 06-01-2009, 03:52 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Virilis - 06-02-2009, 02:52 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 06-08-2009, 11:59 AM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 06-08-2009, 07:15 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 06-09-2009, 01:46 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 06-09-2009, 11:45 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 06-10-2009, 01:24 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 06-10-2009, 05:03 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by mcbishop - 06-10-2009, 09:12 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 06-10-2009, 09:47 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 06-11-2009, 11:52 AM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Theo - 06-12-2009, 06:22 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 07-05-2009, 01:28 AM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 07-05-2009, 01:39 AM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 07-05-2009, 03:29 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Theo - 07-24-2009, 05:49 AM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 07-24-2009, 09:34 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 07-31-2009, 04:19 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Conal - 08-07-2009, 08:30 AM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 08-20-2009, 06:19 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 09-03-2009, 08:40 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 09-08-2009, 01:19 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Theo - 09-08-2009, 05:30 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Caballo - 09-08-2009, 06:33 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 09-08-2009, 07:18 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 09-10-2009, 11:57 AM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 09-10-2009, 07:03 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Caballo - 09-11-2009, 05:10 AM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Peroni - 09-11-2009, 09:40 AM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 09-12-2009, 01:23 AM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Caballo - 09-12-2009, 06:11 AM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 09-12-2009, 04:03 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Virilis - 09-12-2009, 05:36 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Caballo - 09-14-2009, 06:01 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 09-15-2009, 03:08 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 09-16-2009, 01:39 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 09-16-2009, 01:42 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 09-16-2009, 03:16 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Gorgon - 09-16-2009, 04:01 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Graham Sumner - 09-16-2009, 04:04 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Conal - 09-29-2009, 02:21 PM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Conal - 09-30-2009, 10:44 AM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Doc - 10-02-2009, 02:25 AM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Doc - 10-02-2009, 02:49 AM
Re: Another new Graham Sumner book? - by Theo - 10-06-2009, 08:49 PM

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