03-01-2009, 12:14 AM
It is common to read of three types of shields in use by the Macedonians. The Greek Aspis as usually portrayed in the use of hoplites was a large flattened dome with a pronounced off-set rim. Macedonian sarissaphoroi appear to add two other types of shields: 1) and exceptionally deep, bowl shaped shield that is rimless and can sometimes be quite large, and 2) a smaller, rimless shield that is dish shaped, but not so deep, and around 60 cm in diameter.
Now if you have read me before, you'll know that the purpose of the rim in the aspis is to prevent the collapse of the flattened dome- either through a strike or due to compression of the whole face of the shield (see the attached image- domes on the left, flattened domes on the right). We have an example of an aspis for instance that is about 85 cm in diameter, including a 5.5 cm rim. If we accept for the sake of arguement that I am correct and the rim occurs because of the need to support a shallow dome, then if the shield were not a shallow dome, but a deep dome, this requirement is eliminated. Subtracting the 5.5 cm from the rim on both side of the shield (11cm total) leaves a now dome shaped shield of same bowl size only 74cm in diameter. This shield would be real small for an aspis and I don't think it beyond possibility that it would be within the range of what we would think of as one of the smaller macedonian types (Label A in the attachment). Interestingly, aspises that were more dome shaped with reduced rims may have been present all along, since many images seem to show them (Label B). I had assumed the artist simply skimped on the rim, but I noticed they are usually the more domed shields that are shown this way.
So to summarize, I am saying that smaller deep-domed shields may be the exact equivalent to larger diameter shallow-domed shields. Why the difference? We'd need to know more about their construction to say for sure. If lathing them out of a block, then shallow equals cheaper for instance. Alternatively building domed shields might be cheaper or more easily gotten since they are less technically complex- perfect for Phillip's requirements.
This is where that quote by the tacticians comes in:
"The best shield (aspis) for use in the phalanx is the Macedonian, of bronze, eight palms in diameter, and not too concave" (Asclepiodotus 5.1)
If he is in fact saying it is the best shields which are shallow, he may be relating to us more than we know. Advances in construction might leave us with a shield that is the diameter of the deep domed shield, which was a reduction in size of the shallow domed, but due to better materials can now be flatter too.
One thing to consider is that the rim can be on the inner edge and still serve the same function. This might be what is shown in some aspis depictions lacking rims- it is very hard to be sure. Our chins are a good example of a butress that juts forth from a curve, while the "chins" of the rest of the apes are supported by bone butressing within the curve of the front of the bottom jaw.
I'll treat this in greater length on my blog:
http://hollow-lakedaimon.blogspot.com/
Now if you have read me before, you'll know that the purpose of the rim in the aspis is to prevent the collapse of the flattened dome- either through a strike or due to compression of the whole face of the shield (see the attached image- domes on the left, flattened domes on the right). We have an example of an aspis for instance that is about 85 cm in diameter, including a 5.5 cm rim. If we accept for the sake of arguement that I am correct and the rim occurs because of the need to support a shallow dome, then if the shield were not a shallow dome, but a deep dome, this requirement is eliminated. Subtracting the 5.5 cm from the rim on both side of the shield (11cm total) leaves a now dome shaped shield of same bowl size only 74cm in diameter. This shield would be real small for an aspis and I don't think it beyond possibility that it would be within the range of what we would think of as one of the smaller macedonian types (Label A in the attachment). Interestingly, aspises that were more dome shaped with reduced rims may have been present all along, since many images seem to show them (Label B). I had assumed the artist simply skimped on the rim, but I noticed they are usually the more domed shields that are shown this way.
So to summarize, I am saying that smaller deep-domed shields may be the exact equivalent to larger diameter shallow-domed shields. Why the difference? We'd need to know more about their construction to say for sure. If lathing them out of a block, then shallow equals cheaper for instance. Alternatively building domed shields might be cheaper or more easily gotten since they are less technically complex- perfect for Phillip's requirements.
This is where that quote by the tacticians comes in:
"The best shield (aspis) for use in the phalanx is the Macedonian, of bronze, eight palms in diameter, and not too concave" (Asclepiodotus 5.1)
If he is in fact saying it is the best shields which are shallow, he may be relating to us more than we know. Advances in construction might leave us with a shield that is the diameter of the deep domed shield, which was a reduction in size of the shallow domed, but due to better materials can now be flatter too.
One thing to consider is that the rim can be on the inner edge and still serve the same function. This might be what is shown in some aspis depictions lacking rims- it is very hard to be sure. Our chins are a good example of a butress that juts forth from a curve, while the "chins" of the rest of the apes are supported by bone butressing within the curve of the front of the bottom jaw.
I'll treat this in greater length on my blog:
http://hollow-lakedaimon.blogspot.com/
Paul M. Bardunias
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A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
MODERATOR: [url:2dqwu8yc]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=4100[/url]
A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
