10-26-2009, 06:09 AM
I'd have to agree with Christian (Kineas) on the matter of Thucydides: the bloom has definitely gone from the Rose. Which is not exactly to say that he is unreliable but, like Xenophon, has his prejudices – many of which are political (Demosthenes and Kleon to name only two). Although an ardent imperialist, he decries the “demagogues” and low-lives that drive wars of hubristic expansion never once stopping to consider what he derived and accepted from the Pericles led imperium.
On other matters, the discussion could go on forever and I’m in no position to further it at the office outside of a couple of quick clarifications.
The ten “advisors” are mentioned in the context of Agis’ return (5.67.4):
Now, again, that can read in a couple of ways. It is plain silly to read it as if Agis had to go to these ten to get permission to lead an army “out of the city”. I read it that for him to do so these ten had to accompany him in the position of “advisors” given his just described dilatory performance in the field. If that is the case then they are with him on his next foray into the field: Mantinea. It is possible – only possible – that the “older” soldier who rebuked Agis for attempting to assault the allies in a fortified position was one of these. You’d expect an advisor to be an experienced hard-head.
As to Neodamondeis, I think they are first referred to at Mantinea by that term. I do not think the term is attested beforehand. References to “helots armed as hoplites” but not until Mantinea is there a “class” of infantry known as Neodamondeis. The two thousand you refer to are those that are assigned to Asia Minor after the war?
All of which is not to say that they did not already exist but, unless memory fails, Mantinea is the first time such are named.
On other matters, the discussion could go on forever and I’m in no position to further it at the office outside of a couple of quick clarifications.
The ten “advisors” are mentioned in the context of Agis’ return (5.67.4):
Quote:[…] and now made a law, hitherto unknown at Lacedaemon, attaching to him ten Spartans as counsellors, without whose consent he should have no power to lead an army out of the city.
Now, again, that can read in a couple of ways. It is plain silly to read it as if Agis had to go to these ten to get permission to lead an army “out of the city”. I read it that for him to do so these ten had to accompany him in the position of “advisors” given his just described dilatory performance in the field. If that is the case then they are with him on his next foray into the field: Mantinea. It is possible – only possible – that the “older” soldier who rebuked Agis for attempting to assault the allies in a fortified position was one of these. You’d expect an advisor to be an experienced hard-head.
As to Neodamondeis, I think they are first referred to at Mantinea by that term. I do not think the term is attested beforehand. References to “helots armed as hoplites” but not until Mantinea is there a “class” of infantry known as Neodamondeis. The two thousand you refer to are those that are assigned to Asia Minor after the war?
All of which is not to say that they did not already exist but, unless memory fails, Mantinea is the first time such are named.
Paralus|Michael Park
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους
Wicked men, you are sinning against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander!
Academia.edu
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους
Wicked men, you are sinning against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander!
Academia.edu
