10-31-2009, 10:51 AM
Sorry?...... but your post seems addressed to a non-existent point. No-one is suggesting that the contingents of 'perioikoi' did not fight in the front line alongside their fellow Lakedaemonians in the Lakedaemonian army.....the question is whether 'perioikoi' formed part of the cherished Spartan 6 'Morai/12 'Lochoi'....and the answer, so far as I and other scholars are concerned is a resounding "No!"
You seem confused about who are "Spartans" and who are "Lakedaemonians". The terms are NOT synonymous. All Spartans are Lakedaemonians, but not all Lakedaemonians are Spartans. We may envisage concentric rings within a 'Spartan' or 'Lakedaemonian' army. The army as a whole might consist of 'Lakedaemonians' and 'peloponnesian Allies', such as the Arcadian Mantineans or Tegeans. The 'Lakedaemonians' consisted of 'Spartans' and 'Perioikoi' ( dwellers round about/citizens of neighbouring Lakedaemonian towns), but sometimes just 'Spartans". The 'Spartans' themselves consisted of 'Homioi' ( peers/Equals/ aristocrats/Full citizens) and 'Hypomeiones' ( 'inferiors' -Spartan citizens but not admitted to the 'messes/sysittia' of the 'Homioi'/full citizens.)
If one does not grasp these distinctions, it is pointless to even attempt to discuss this subject....
This is the sort of uninformed comment which leads to confusion. When one looks holistically at all the evidence it is quite apparent that 'perioikoi' probably never served in Spartan 'Morai'. I re-iterate that mention of "citizen troops" cannot include 'perioikoi' since by definition, they were not citizens of Sparta. In truth there is no unequivocal evidence that 'perioikoi' ever served in 'Spartan' regiments....
Isokrates 'canard' must be taken with a grain of salt - he exagerrates to make his point, and no-one denies that 'perioikoi' didn't take their place in the front line of the 'Lakedaemonian' army. Note that Isokrates re-inforces the point that 'perioikoi' were NOT 'Spartan citizens', so when Xenophon speaks of "the citizens" or the "citizen troops" or "the citizen army", he means exclusive of 'perioikoi'. Whenever the 'Spartan/Lakedaemonian Army' was mobilised, naturally the 6 'Morai' of citizens, coming from Sparta, were the first ( and sometimes the only ) troops mobilised. The 'perioikoi', being scattered in 'cities'/villages all over Lakedaemonia naturally took longer to mobilise, as for the campaign against Xerxes described by Herodotus. In fact we sometimes hear of messengers sent by the 'Spartan' command to hurry them....BTW the "Skiritae", though technically not even Lakedaemonians seem to have enjoyed a similar staus to 'perioikoi'.....
You seem confused about who are "Spartans" and who are "Lakedaemonians". The terms are NOT synonymous. All Spartans are Lakedaemonians, but not all Lakedaemonians are Spartans. We may envisage concentric rings within a 'Spartan' or 'Lakedaemonian' army. The army as a whole might consist of 'Lakedaemonians' and 'peloponnesian Allies', such as the Arcadian Mantineans or Tegeans. The 'Lakedaemonians' consisted of 'Spartans' and 'Perioikoi' ( dwellers round about/citizens of neighbouring Lakedaemonian towns), but sometimes just 'Spartans". The 'Spartans' themselves consisted of 'Homioi' ( peers/Equals/ aristocrats/Full citizens) and 'Hypomeiones' ( 'inferiors' -Spartan citizens but not admitted to the 'messes/sysittia' of the 'Homioi'/full citizens.)
If one does not grasp these distinctions, it is pointless to even attempt to discuss this subject....
Quote:There is no evidence that clearly indicates that the periocoi fought in separate units.
This is the sort of uninformed comment which leads to confusion. When one looks holistically at all the evidence it is quite apparent that 'perioikoi' probably never served in Spartan 'Morai'. I re-iterate that mention of "citizen troops" cannot include 'perioikoi' since by definition, they were not citizens of Sparta. In truth there is no unequivocal evidence that 'perioikoi' ever served in 'Spartan' regiments....
Isokrates 'canard' must be taken with a grain of salt - he exagerrates to make his point, and no-one denies that 'perioikoi' didn't take their place in the front line of the 'Lakedaemonian' army. Note that Isokrates re-inforces the point that 'perioikoi' were NOT 'Spartan citizens', so when Xenophon speaks of "the citizens" or the "citizen troops" or "the citizen army", he means exclusive of 'perioikoi'. Whenever the 'Spartan/Lakedaemonian Army' was mobilised, naturally the 6 'Morai' of citizens, coming from Sparta, were the first ( and sometimes the only ) troops mobilised. The 'perioikoi', being scattered in 'cities'/villages all over Lakedaemonia naturally took longer to mobilise, as for the campaign against Xerxes described by Herodotus. In fact we sometimes hear of messengers sent by the 'Spartan' command to hurry them....BTW the "Skiritae", though technically not even Lakedaemonians seem to have enjoyed a similar staus to 'perioikoi'.....
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
