Hippeis, not Hippies

[Polinik]

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My main point is that despite constant drill and training (which of course others - notably Thebes and Makedon) later concentrated on; the very nature of the Spartan rearing - i.e. the agoge had to count for something. The Spartiate wasn't just well-trained, drilled, equipped and disciplined. He was devoted to the art of warfare, hardship, and standing his ground. Their failings were rarely due to lack of courage or vigour, discipline or skill - usually other factors (like facing an enemy who didn't want to fight in a conventional manner). They were of course keenly aware that fighting the same opponents regularly was a mistake since those opponents would learn by witnessing. This was something that initially at least was avoided if at all possible. If they made serious mistakes they were macro rather than micro. There was a reluctance to innovate even after the lessons of Iphikrates, Epaminondas and Phillip II. However, I'm lost for a term that describes the Spartiate soldier who was so superior to other fighting men (who hadn't devoted every hour since they were 7 to military pursuits) if we can't describe them as elite. What was the point of all that decades-long training if any other state could match her standard troops with their own (who didn't devote their lives accordingly)?

You cannot generalise about these things. In the case of any Spartan army in the field - it depends upon what period we are talking about, and what composition we are observing. It is also self-evident that other powers came to recognise the value of dedicated soldiering as time went on, and then Sparta was far from alone in having crack troops. Other armies had always had brave and tough fighters - barbarians like Persians, Carthaginians, Italians, Kelts, Thrakians - other Hellenes like Thebans, Makedonians, Argives, Epeirotes etc. However, generally none of them had devoted their male population entirely to warfare as Agesilaos II aptly demonstrated with his tradesmen speech.

Excelent point.

I apologize also because I will wander off a little. I must add only that I feel it is very wrong to speak of Spartans in general, not noticing the huge differences in this city before and after the great earthquake.

All of the "elite",fearsome and (almost)invincible reputation,which was justified,and had strong support in system of the city, was earned in times before and at Persian wars...Earthquake not only destroyed the city and irreplaceable number of people,it changed the mind set of the new generation citizens and the army. Soon into Peloponnesian wars Spartans became just another city state which lived off it's earlier glory...that was the time time when they abandoned the hero image, and showed great attention and desire for cosmetic uniformity in various things,clothes,hair,beard,shields and God know what other "symbols of Sparta" we know of today..all completely pointless, and irrelevant to the art of war -- which they seems to forgot somewhere along the way.

So if we talk about Spartan army being elite or not(or anything else concerning this city), we must be precise of the period. The latter post earthquake Spartans frankly did not do anything to earn the "elite" reputation. And all those "Spartans were known for" things derive from earlier times.

But their ancestors being elite is no myth.Why? "Ghostmojo" explained I will just add the practical stuff- Agoge system,as being perfect idea, is copied into every special force today, in some more radical than in others....and those people kill with teeth and act like beasts after a year or two. And more than decade of brutal(watch my signature for a little illustration) training will make you an elite for sure,and more.And that is what wins the battle,one man multiplied by thousands..Tactic is only tool for winning battle,but it all comes to bravery,strength and spirit of each man.All city states had warrior men,but Sparta made them on purpose,and had army made entirely of true "brainwashed" if you wish, warriors who loved that ideal.

All best

"I don’t think lack of courage was an issue. That said, homoioi were men and as such suffered all the foibles. Their courage deserted them on the odd occasion they were faced with certain defeat and death (Sphacteria, Tegyra and Leuktra for example). The famous Spartan “reluctance” to go to war also says much. When image (mirage) is all, the best way to preserve it is not to unnecessarily test it."

This is, I have to say, completely wrong way of thinking. What you said applies when you are weak and want to artificially preserve your image. But when you are strong and you know it,test is welcome.
Are you familiar with someone who is very good boxer,or wrestler for example..Does he go around fighting people.All of the people I know would do almost anything to avoid fight.If it came to it,they would set an example with brutal efficiency...That is the point.