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Mykale, a naval battle?
#17
Quote:
immortal:7egp523d Wrote:All of the reproductions of the Persian depicted on the gateway in Darius' palace at Persepolis always show him holding a handle on the wicker 'shield' in front of him. While at Persepolis I noticed that this doesn't actually exist... there is no handle at all. Interestingly their spears are very long, 9-10 feet in length.

The only positive Persian depiction of a shield we have is the 'violin/dipylon/waisted' shield at Persepolis. I don't use Greek depictions as evidence as the 'Persians' do not actually wear Iranian clothing or use Iranian Weapons!

Spara from a much later date have been found almost intact in Dura Europos. They had a central handle. The shields are shown on Secunda's Osprey "The battle of Marathon". The spara could certainly be sticked to the ground,allowing their bearers to actually shout with bows. This is shown in a greek vase,and i don't believe the artist just imagined this idea. Far more though are shown carried with a handle.

I think your idea that the spara only were meant to form a palisade comes from the fact the Herodotus says that the Persians started building a wooden palisade,and the fact that then he also speaks of a palisade of spara that falls at some pont. However,herodotus says "stone and wood palisade" and he also says that it had gates. Generally he makes it pretty clear that the spara palisade is not the same as the one around the persian camp,which protected also their ships.
Khaire
Giannis

You cannot use the Dara Europos shields as evidence for Achaemenid equipment, they date to almost 1000 years later! The Pazyryk sheild is another matter.
I have found one greek depiction of what looks like a Spara being carried with a handle (although you cannot see his hand). As I mentioned in a previous post, I am reluctant to use Greek depictions of Persians as evidence for their appearence. All the 'Persians' on Greek pottery are equipped with Greek, Thracian and Skythian weapons. Almost all of them wear thracian head dress too.
I think it is much safer to base the appearence and equpment of the Persians on Persian depictions of themselves. If you look at the so called Spara at Persepolis, it matches none of the Greek depictions of it. It has a solid 'frame' with straight wicker poles inserted into vertically into them.
Actually Herodotus says:
"And first the combat was at the wicker shields. Afterwards when these were swept down, a fierce contest took place by the side of the temple of Demeter, which lasted long, and ended in a hand-to-hand struggle....... The Persians were not a whit inferior to the Greeks; but they were without bucklers"

As the Persian infantry had advanced out of their camp, it is safe to say these could be moved easily by hand and set up on a prop in any position allowing the bearer to shoot his bow.
Stephen May - <a class="postlink" href="http://www.immortalminiatures.com">www.immortalminiatures.com
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Messages In This Thread
Mykale, a naval battle? - by Dithyrambus - 07-05-2010, 06:38 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Jona Lendering - 07-05-2010, 07:17 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by hoplite14gr - 07-05-2010, 08:15 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Dithyrambus - 07-05-2010, 10:30 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Jona Lendering - 07-05-2010, 11:18 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Dithyrambus - 07-06-2010, 12:53 AM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Old Husker - 07-06-2010, 05:19 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by hoplite14gr - 07-06-2010, 06:45 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by immortal - 07-06-2010, 07:28 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by hoplite14gr - 07-06-2010, 07:35 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by immortal - 07-06-2010, 07:43 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Dithyrambus - 07-06-2010, 11:17 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by immortal - 07-07-2010, 03:05 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Dithyrambus - 07-07-2010, 07:44 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by immortal - 07-07-2010, 11:17 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by PMBardunias - 07-07-2010, 11:20 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by immortal - 07-07-2010, 11:32 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Dithyrambus - 07-08-2010, 12:33 AM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Sean Manning - 07-08-2010, 01:56 AM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by immortal - 07-08-2010, 05:23 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by immortal - 07-08-2010, 05:55 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Sean Manning - 07-09-2010, 02:12 AM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Old Husker - 07-19-2010, 07:20 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by PMBardunias - 07-20-2010, 01:35 AM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Sean Manning - 07-20-2010, 02:44 AM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Paullus Scipio - 07-20-2010, 06:01 AM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by immortal - 07-20-2010, 03:24 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Old Husker - 07-20-2010, 07:17 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by immortal - 07-20-2010, 10:33 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Old Husker - 07-20-2010, 11:35 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by PMBardunias - 07-20-2010, 11:36 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Paullus Scipio - 07-21-2010, 12:14 AM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by PMBardunias - 07-21-2010, 12:39 AM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Paullus Scipio - 07-21-2010, 01:14 AM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by MeinPanzer - 07-21-2010, 01:59 AM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by immortal - 07-21-2010, 09:01 AM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by MeinPanzer - 07-21-2010, 04:48 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by immortal - 07-21-2010, 10:59 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by MeinPanzer - 07-21-2010, 11:34 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by immortal - 07-26-2010, 04:10 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by MeinPanzer - 07-26-2010, 06:30 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by PMBardunias - 07-26-2010, 08:37 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by MeinPanzer - 07-26-2010, 09:02 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by MeinPanzer - 07-26-2010, 09:42 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by immortal - 07-26-2010, 10:57 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by MeinPanzer - 07-26-2010, 11:35 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Sean Manning - 07-27-2010, 01:57 AM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by PMBardunias - 07-27-2010, 03:38 AM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by immortal - 07-27-2010, 07:58 AM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by MeinPanzer - 07-27-2010, 04:43 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by Sean Manning - 07-28-2010, 04:39 AM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by immortal - 07-28-2010, 02:23 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by immortal - 07-28-2010, 03:13 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by MeinPanzer - 07-28-2010, 04:59 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by immortal - 07-28-2010, 10:36 PM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by PMBardunias - 07-29-2010, 10:50 AM
Re: Mykale, a naval battle? - by MeinPanzer - 07-29-2010, 04:45 PM

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