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Greeks always fought outnumbered?
#69
Quote:And thus the account can immediately be dismissed as useless. The only eye witness, Xenophon, is 100% clear that there was no killing by the Greeks at all, because they never engaged.

If no men were killed after their phalanx broke, hoplite battles would for the most part be quite bloodless. But we know in fact it was after one side broke that most casualties occurred. I don't know where you are getting a "200m" lead from. The Persians did not break the instant the Greeks advanced, but only "before an arrow reached them", which can mean many distances.

I've consolidated the following comments from the other thread onto this one because we were having parallel discussions:

The single Greek casualty occurred in the first clash. Even though we are told that the Persians broke before an arrow reached the Greeks, a man was wounded by an arrow on the left wing of the Greeks. Thus, either the reference was a euphomism for "about a bowshot away", and not literal, or fighting, including missile attack, contunued after the Persians broke- which is likely.

Quote:
Quote:Their chariotry did not retire well if that was the plan! It would be odd for Tissaphernes to charge through the peltasts if the plan of the persians was to give way. Far more likely is that he charged through the peltasts opposite him as part of the general advance, and then did what so many cavalry forces did- thus he went for the baggage.
Not really, considering he was in command of the infantry as well. What general advance are you speaking of? The imperial forces didn't advance at all, the rebels started off the battle.

Tissaphernes was on the Persian left, opposite the peltasts between the hoplites and the river. He charged through them, Xen 1.10.7:

Quote:For Tissaphernes had not taken to flight in the first encounter, but had charged along the river through the Greek peltasts2; he did not kill anyone in his passage, but the Greeks, after opening a gap for his men, proceeded to deal blows and throw javelins upon them as they went through. The commander of the Greek peltasts was Episthenes of Amphipolis, and it was said that he proved himself a sagacious man. [8] At any rate, after Tissaphernes had thus come off with the worst of it, he did not wheel round again, but went on to the camp of the Greeks and there fell in with the King; so it was that, after forming their lines once more, they were proceeding together. [9]

As for the Persians being particularly "light", Some of them were heavy enough to be "hoplites".

Quote:1.8.9] There were horsemen in white cuirasses on the left wing of the enemy, under the command, it was reported, of Tissaphernes; next to them were troops with wicker shields and, farther on, hoplites with wooden shields which reached to their feet, these latter being Egyptians, people said; and then more horsemen and more bowmen. All these troops were marching in national divisions, each nation in a solid square.

As for a general advance, it is unlikely that the egyptians planned to meet the charge flat footed.
Paul M. Bardunias
MODERATOR: [url:2dqwu8yc]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=4100[/url]
A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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Messages In This Thread
Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by Roach - 10-19-2011, 10:57 PM
Re: Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by Roach - 10-20-2011, 12:04 PM
Re: Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by Roach - 10-20-2011, 05:05 PM
Re: Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by Roach - 10-20-2011, 05:55 PM
Re: Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by Roach - 10-20-2011, 06:14 PM
Re: Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by Roach - 01-10-2012, 08:14 PM
Re: Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by Lyceum - 01-12-2012, 03:45 PM
Re: Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by Lyceum - 01-12-2012, 05:13 PM
Re: Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by Lyceum - 01-12-2012, 09:22 PM
Re: Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by Roach - 02-07-2012, 09:19 PM
Re: Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by Roach - 02-08-2012, 07:45 PM
Re: Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by Roach - 02-11-2012, 05:51 PM
Re: Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by Roach - 02-12-2012, 08:14 PM
Re: Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by Roach - 02-13-2012, 08:16 PM
Re: Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by Roach - 02-13-2012, 10:38 PM
Re: Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by Roach - 02-14-2012, 06:12 PM
Re: Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by Roach - 02-14-2012, 09:42 PM
Re: Greeks always fought outnumbered? - by PMBardunias - 02-15-2012, 04:25 AM

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