01-13-2012, 02:14 AM
Giannis,
I think we agree here but perhaps is just a degree of misunderstanding here. You're right that both are mentioned, as I acknowledged. We also agree that they don't seem to be exactly the same kind of armor, more popular; less popular what have you. The basic problem for any of us is not having lived in their time we're not quite sure whether their terminology refers to something that is or is not depicted. Lino- anything maybe a precise description or it could have become a shorthand word that lost its strictly descriptive value over time. Hell for all we know the fluffy, flouncy bits we see on occasion over their chitoniskos could have been called a linothorax as it functions as padding. Simply stated we just don't have their first hand language in usage. We have to study it from afar and try to infere meaning from what could have been colloquialism.
As far as sharper weapons in medieval times, I think the Greeks could make pretty sharp iron weapons and you can't compare apples and oranges though to frame your point. There were no phalanxes in medieval times so an individual's armor type didn't equate that well to the whole period. Plus in medieval times you had just a different mentality in raising armies. Most were indentured servants and peasants who were basically strong-armed into service with whatever they could find, scrape together. The Greek mentality seemed a bit different than this.
The digs at Archontiko are still ongoing. Last I checked 1,014 graves so far. Many not complete including many cremated remains as well as completely inhumed bodies. Nearly every grave contains gold. Some in great profusion. It will obviously take time to sift through all of that. But in various releases of information the leather armor is indeed mentioned.
This is none of it, intended to get your dander up, it's just to explain that likely all of us are right and wrong. As I stated, I think we're more in agreement these days about the wide variety of what they indeed used as there is no running standard amongst artifacts. Nothing mass produced. So likely linen or leather is a moot point other than to say whatever they were making of linen to be used as armor has yet to rear its head definitively. Unless we have a time machine we could go around this same bush all year. But it is pointless to argue about how we agree. There are a thousands different factors to each individual Hoplite that could have lived in the 4-500 years that is the heart of the Hoplite age. One man had this and another that. I think the important hurdle to overcome was the way people USED to think it was only one way or another.
I think we agree here but perhaps is just a degree of misunderstanding here. You're right that both are mentioned, as I acknowledged. We also agree that they don't seem to be exactly the same kind of armor, more popular; less popular what have you. The basic problem for any of us is not having lived in their time we're not quite sure whether their terminology refers to something that is or is not depicted. Lino- anything maybe a precise description or it could have become a shorthand word that lost its strictly descriptive value over time. Hell for all we know the fluffy, flouncy bits we see on occasion over their chitoniskos could have been called a linothorax as it functions as padding. Simply stated we just don't have their first hand language in usage. We have to study it from afar and try to infere meaning from what could have been colloquialism.
As far as sharper weapons in medieval times, I think the Greeks could make pretty sharp iron weapons and you can't compare apples and oranges though to frame your point. There were no phalanxes in medieval times so an individual's armor type didn't equate that well to the whole period. Plus in medieval times you had just a different mentality in raising armies. Most were indentured servants and peasants who were basically strong-armed into service with whatever they could find, scrape together. The Greek mentality seemed a bit different than this.
The digs at Archontiko are still ongoing. Last I checked 1,014 graves so far. Many not complete including many cremated remains as well as completely inhumed bodies. Nearly every grave contains gold. Some in great profusion. It will obviously take time to sift through all of that. But in various releases of information the leather armor is indeed mentioned.
This is none of it, intended to get your dander up, it's just to explain that likely all of us are right and wrong. As I stated, I think we're more in agreement these days about the wide variety of what they indeed used as there is no running standard amongst artifacts. Nothing mass produced. So likely linen or leather is a moot point other than to say whatever they were making of linen to be used as armor has yet to rear its head definitively. Unless we have a time machine we could go around this same bush all year. But it is pointless to argue about how we agree. There are a thousands different factors to each individual Hoplite that could have lived in the 4-500 years that is the heart of the Hoplite age. One man had this and another that. I think the important hurdle to overcome was the way people USED to think it was only one way or another.
