Homer and Hellenes

[Macedon]

Thucydides indeed says that Homer never calls all the Greeks Hellenes which can be a clue, unless he is wrong or unless he thinks that Panhellenes would not be the exact same thing. Yet, he makes another comment that seems to be wrong. He writes that the Greeks did not yet call the rest of the world barbarians while the poet specifically calls Carians barbarophonous (of barbarian tongue) (2.867). Furthermore he is aware of the catalogue and talks about 1200 ships, a fact that hints at the complete list as we know it, although certain words might have been absent I guess.

Regarding the possibility that Homer distinguishes between Northeners and Southerners I would rather argue with his own account of the Myrmidons who were called both Hellenes and Achaeans. "Μυρμιδόνες δὲ καλεῦντο καὶ Ἕλληνες καὶ Ἀχαιοί" 2.684. This to me rules out the possibility of the word Achaeans being reserved for the Southerners, making it less possible (rather than impossible) that the Panhellenes could indeed be the Northeners. This might though be the case in the Odyssey. I looked for more information in this book and found a number of instances where the poet seems to generally refer to "Greece far and wide" by the term "Hellas and mid Argos". "καθ’ Ἑλλάδα καὶ μέσον Ἄργος." (Od.1.344, 4.726, 4.816, 15.80). It is interesting to note that although this phrase appears verbatim in 4 places in the Odyssey, it never appears in the Iliad.