06-25-2014, 11:09 PM
Mark,
I'm going to tone my posts down a bit. I get a little too carried away sometimes with the sarcasm. I blame the hydrocodone mixed with bad memories of incompetent military officers in the past who loved using a technical business-related vocabulary. My reactions did little to further the debate at hand and were childish. I'll attempt to be a bit more civil in the future. My apologies.
That out of the way, in your last lengthy post you delved into some pretty controversial/debatable topics but you didn't answer Nathan Ross' question?
Is there any evidence or support for the idea that the centurion commanded from the rear in battle? There are several sources, most already mentioned here, that suggest he led from the front. From where are you drawing the idea that he did not?
As for standard bearers in general carrying shields, I'd add to the previous two pictures of archaeological finds already provided in the thread with an artistic representation that could explain the "how" a little better:
[img width=300]http://www.markchurms.com/mm5/graphics/eagle-m.jpg[/img]
A traditional tall oval or rectangular scuta, with its horizontal grip would be more difficult to carry like this but with a parma, as described by Polybius, it would be ideal, as you can carry it gripped vertically inline with the shaft of the standard. I believe it would offer a pretty good surface area of protection. Coupled with a dedicated guard whose duty it would be to protect the standard bearer (maybe even one of the duties of the centurion?), as well as putting the standard in the arms of the bravest/toughest man in the unit (Polybius amongst hundreds of others sources of standard bearers being chosen among the bravest men), I think that the signifer had a pretty high chance of surviving a fight, as long as things went well. However, Caesar's Commentaries are full of descriptions of battles where things didn't go well. Usually along with descriptions of high number of casualties among centurions, you can find signifers added as well, meaning their lives were also usually in peril more than the average soldier. A bit more evidence of their placement in the unit I think. Maybe not in the very front rank, but I think they fought awfully close to it.
I'm going to tone my posts down a bit. I get a little too carried away sometimes with the sarcasm. I blame the hydrocodone mixed with bad memories of incompetent military officers in the past who loved using a technical business-related vocabulary. My reactions did little to further the debate at hand and were childish. I'll attempt to be a bit more civil in the future. My apologies.
That out of the way, in your last lengthy post you delved into some pretty controversial/debatable topics but you didn't answer Nathan Ross' question?
Is there any evidence or support for the idea that the centurion commanded from the rear in battle? There are several sources, most already mentioned here, that suggest he led from the front. From where are you drawing the idea that he did not?
As for standard bearers in general carrying shields, I'd add to the previous two pictures of archaeological finds already provided in the thread with an artistic representation that could explain the "how" a little better:
[img width=300]http://www.markchurms.com/mm5/graphics/eagle-m.jpg[/img]
A traditional tall oval or rectangular scuta, with its horizontal grip would be more difficult to carry like this but with a parma, as described by Polybius, it would be ideal, as you can carry it gripped vertically inline with the shaft of the standard. I believe it would offer a pretty good surface area of protection. Coupled with a dedicated guard whose duty it would be to protect the standard bearer (maybe even one of the duties of the centurion?), as well as putting the standard in the arms of the bravest/toughest man in the unit (Polybius amongst hundreds of others sources of standard bearers being chosen among the bravest men), I think that the signifer had a pretty high chance of surviving a fight, as long as things went well. However, Caesar's Commentaries are full of descriptions of battles where things didn't go well. Usually along with descriptions of high number of casualties among centurions, you can find signifers added as well, meaning their lives were also usually in peril more than the average soldier. A bit more evidence of their placement in the unit I think. Maybe not in the very front rank, but I think they fought awfully close to it.
