I posted this question over on the SoA forum and I just wondered what the views were here?
As the Iazyges are the prime candidates as the catalyst for change in the Quadi the above question takes the term 'Sarmarticized' to mean the adoption of heavy cavalry tactics using the lance and the charge as the primary battlefield tactic; the bow may have been carried but as a secondary weapon. Some armour (man and horse) would have been employed but not to the extent of the Roxolani.
Whilst digging in some very sparse ground in an attempt to find out I found this, via googlebooks:
‘Our Forefathers’
A Manual of the Ethnography of the Gothic, German, Dutch, Anglo-Saxon, Frisian and Scandinavian Peoples
Vol 2, Gudmund Schutte
CUP
Schutte notes that the Quadi and Suebi names are synonymous and for centuries the names appear in connection to the Pannonian Sarmates.
The Iazygas annex the west Dacian plains c.44BC (Pliny) the Quadi/Suebi later appear in Moravia probably with the agreement of the Iazyges.
This is the earliest connection, however Schutte tells us we are ignorant of the circumstances that led them to an entente ‘lasting several centuries’.
Various alliances but no mutual wars are recorded this early, however they share the tributes from the Cotini and Osi tribes (Tacitus) and we have Ammianus on the adoption of the scale armour and sword worship much later.
Back in AD20 the Quadi are ruled by Vannius who is a vassal of Rome (Tacitus), Schutte says ‘Vannius reigns successfully for 30 years, supported by his Sarmatian cavalry’ but in 51AD he is dethroned by his nephews and Claudius receives Vannius and his followers in Pannonia (Tacitus).
In 69AD Quadi and Iazyges serves side by side as mercenaries for Vespasian (Tacitus), in 92AD they turn put again together and Tacitus says ‘now they [Quadi] even tolerate foreign kings’ i.e. probably Iazyges.
We then arrive at the Marcomannic Wars where the Quadi and Sarmatians are listed together; after Marcus ejects them from Pannonia he brings forward a new king for the Quadi, one ‘Furtius’ (Dio), who’s name is Sarmatian (Schutte).
In 170 Quadi and Iazyges together threaten the capital of Dacia.
After the Quadi are beaten Marcus does not allow them to ally with the Iazyges (Dio), obviously together they are trouble.
Quadi and Sarmates invade Pannonia in 255; Aurelian repulses both of them in 270, Numerianus in 284, and by Constantius in 357 and 358.
365-7 Valentinian builds forts on Quadic territory and the Quadic king is murdered when he objects; they both invade Pannonia (again) but are repulsed.
By 390 Ammianus has the Quadi subdued.
Then it’s 406 and all that….
So any Sarmaticized Quadi could possibly be from 255 or earlier, even 92AD, if ‘serving side by side’ [above] is interpreted as ‘as one tactically as well as in alliance’ and Tacitus' 'foreign kings' [above] does mean an Iazyges leader.
In a few posts with Duncan Head it seemed to be that the later date (i.e. late 2nd C early 3rdC AD) was the most likely answer to the question (though the end of the Marcommani Wars was first postulated c180AD).
Commodus continues action against the Iazyges, the Buri and the 'free Dacians' c.181-2 that result in him taking the honorific Germanicus Maximus in mid 182. He is murdered in 192. Perhaps this is the period that the change takes place?
However there is a sizable gap between the death of Commodus and what we are told about joint Quadi/Iaztges actions; the Quadi and Sarmates invade Pannonia in 255, Aurelian repulses both of them in 270, Numerianus in 284, and by Constantius in 357 and 358; 365-7 Valentinian builds forts on Quadic territory and the Quadic king is murdered when he objects; they both invade Pannonia (again) but are repulsed.
Be interested in any views.
As the Iazyges are the prime candidates as the catalyst for change in the Quadi the above question takes the term 'Sarmarticized' to mean the adoption of heavy cavalry tactics using the lance and the charge as the primary battlefield tactic; the bow may have been carried but as a secondary weapon. Some armour (man and horse) would have been employed but not to the extent of the Roxolani.
Whilst digging in some very sparse ground in an attempt to find out I found this, via googlebooks:
‘Our Forefathers’
A Manual of the Ethnography of the Gothic, German, Dutch, Anglo-Saxon, Frisian and Scandinavian Peoples
Vol 2, Gudmund Schutte
CUP
Schutte notes that the Quadi and Suebi names are synonymous and for centuries the names appear in connection to the Pannonian Sarmates.
The Iazygas annex the west Dacian plains c.44BC (Pliny) the Quadi/Suebi later appear in Moravia probably with the agreement of the Iazyges.
This is the earliest connection, however Schutte tells us we are ignorant of the circumstances that led them to an entente ‘lasting several centuries’.
Various alliances but no mutual wars are recorded this early, however they share the tributes from the Cotini and Osi tribes (Tacitus) and we have Ammianus on the adoption of the scale armour and sword worship much later.
Back in AD20 the Quadi are ruled by Vannius who is a vassal of Rome (Tacitus), Schutte says ‘Vannius reigns successfully for 30 years, supported by his Sarmatian cavalry’ but in 51AD he is dethroned by his nephews and Claudius receives Vannius and his followers in Pannonia (Tacitus).
In 69AD Quadi and Iazyges serves side by side as mercenaries for Vespasian (Tacitus), in 92AD they turn put again together and Tacitus says ‘now they [Quadi] even tolerate foreign kings’ i.e. probably Iazyges.
We then arrive at the Marcomannic Wars where the Quadi and Sarmatians are listed together; after Marcus ejects them from Pannonia he brings forward a new king for the Quadi, one ‘Furtius’ (Dio), who’s name is Sarmatian (Schutte).
In 170 Quadi and Iazyges together threaten the capital of Dacia.
After the Quadi are beaten Marcus does not allow them to ally with the Iazyges (Dio), obviously together they are trouble.
Quadi and Sarmates invade Pannonia in 255; Aurelian repulses both of them in 270, Numerianus in 284, and by Constantius in 357 and 358.
365-7 Valentinian builds forts on Quadic territory and the Quadic king is murdered when he objects; they both invade Pannonia (again) but are repulsed.
By 390 Ammianus has the Quadi subdued.
Then it’s 406 and all that….
So any Sarmaticized Quadi could possibly be from 255 or earlier, even 92AD, if ‘serving side by side’ [above] is interpreted as ‘as one tactically as well as in alliance’ and Tacitus' 'foreign kings' [above] does mean an Iazyges leader.
In a few posts with Duncan Head it seemed to be that the later date (i.e. late 2nd C early 3rdC AD) was the most likely answer to the question (though the end of the Marcommani Wars was first postulated c180AD).
Commodus continues action against the Iazyges, the Buri and the 'free Dacians' c.181-2 that result in him taking the honorific Germanicus Maximus in mid 182. He is murdered in 192. Perhaps this is the period that the change takes place?
However there is a sizable gap between the death of Commodus and what we are told about joint Quadi/Iaztges actions; the Quadi and Sarmates invade Pannonia in 255, Aurelian repulses both of them in 270, Numerianus in 284, and by Constantius in 357 and 358; 365-7 Valentinian builds forts on Quadic territory and the Quadic king is murdered when he objects; they both invade Pannonia (again) but are repulsed.
Be interested in any views.
Rodger Williams
