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making an aspis
#62
Giannis wrote:-
Quote:Vatican shield is constructed of I think five planks of wood,probably poplar, and carved in shape.
....where did you get that information from?
On re-reading my source, I see that although he describes the bowl as "solid", and there appears to be a typographical error where he says '..no evidence for glued joints', it should read "..there is evidence of glued joints which indicate the wooden bowl has been assembled from two or more carved pieces.This is confirmed by the fact that the grain direction is not always the same.At the centre of the bowl the wood thickness is 2-2.5 cm ....tapering to 1.1 cm where the rim joins " (i.e. thickest in the centre, thinnest near the rim - totally unlike Connolly's reconstruction cross section....).The inner side of the wooden bowl has been covered with a thin layer of leather ( about 0.25 mm thick) and so has the rim.The junction between bowl leather and rim leather seems to have been made by sewing." Incidently, the shield is almost but not quite circular ( c.f. Sphacteria shield) at 82x81.5 cm, which would be accounted for by slight play in the lathe bearings, and the rim is 3.8 cm wide.
The bronze cover is 1mm or less in parts, and my source (who personally examined the vatican shield in detail) says only that the wood "is a long fibred species"
Quote:Paul,what evidence is there for laminated shields in the 4th century? The only evidence on shield construction I know of is the Vatican shield and the 7th century Chigi vase,which can be interpreted in a number of ways.
There is also the bronze facing from the 'Sphacteria' shield, inscribed by the Athenians and the 'Olynthus' shield, whose rim Paul B. posted photos of. G.E.Mylonas (A.J.A. 43 (1939)at p.57 described it's structure thus:-
"The interior of the shield was made of (criss) crossing pieces of wood (ptuches) probably covered in the centre with hide (interior, possibly exterior too since only the rim appears to have been bronze). Within the broad rim were found pieces of charred wood 6 cm wide ( strips), 5 small bronze rings, 1 with a hook attached,2 bronze nails..."
Two (of several) further fragmented remains of shields come Olympia, and their publisher (E. Kunze : Olympiabericht III(1959) describes 'curved struts' which appear to have been internal support for a shield similair to the Olynthus type - compare later Roman scuta of similar structure, hence these type shields will have been much thinner and lighter than the 'solid' variety.
Quote:If we trust Connolly's paintings,the grain of the wood does not suggest steaming
...unfortunately Connolly's reconstruction is incorrect in a number of respects, particularly the rim structure. His cross section is imaginary and no guide at all to construction, or shape.
Wulf wrote:-( incidently, Wulf, you must add your real name to your signature....forum rule)
Quote:thanks Giannis, that makes a lot more sense.
Though i think Paullus may not have understood completely what i meant by the term 'planks'
I'd agree that planks glued edge to edge would make sense - see above. A ply core is, of course, strongest.
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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Messages In This Thread
making an aspis - by Chuck Russell - 04-07-2007, 09:25 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Matthew Amt - 04-08-2007, 02:48 AM
Re - by Johnny Shumate - 04-08-2007, 02:56 AM
I have worked on a few of them - by zugislander - 04-08-2007, 03:59 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Steve Lenz - 04-08-2007, 09:51 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Chuck Russell - 04-08-2007, 02:26 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Tarbicus - 04-08-2007, 03:21 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Anonymous - 04-08-2007, 04:04 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Arthes - 04-08-2007, 04:06 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Steve Lenz - 04-08-2007, 04:40 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Anonymous - 04-08-2007, 05:07 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Steve Lenz - 04-08-2007, 05:49 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Dan Diffendale - 04-09-2007, 12:00 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Steve Lenz - 04-09-2007, 12:03 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Chris B - 04-09-2007, 07:14 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Magnus - 04-09-2007, 07:46 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Anonymous - 04-09-2007, 09:58 PM
Re: making an aspis - by M. Demetrius - 04-10-2007, 02:41 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Chris B - 04-10-2007, 12:29 PM
Re: making an aspis - by M. Demetrius - 04-10-2007, 12:56 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Steve Lenz - 04-10-2007, 01:38 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Dan Diffendale - 04-10-2007, 01:42 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Chris B - 04-10-2007, 03:06 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Magnus - 04-10-2007, 04:34 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Chris B - 04-10-2007, 04:57 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Chris B - 04-10-2007, 08:47 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Robert Vermaat - 04-11-2007, 06:14 AM
Re: making an aspis - by hoplite14gr - 04-11-2007, 07:24 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Idomeneas - 04-12-2007, 12:19 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Magnus - 04-12-2007, 06:13 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Chris B - 04-12-2007, 12:32 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Magnus - 04-12-2007, 01:08 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Anonymous - 04-12-2007, 01:22 PM
Re: making an aspis - by M. Demetrius - 04-13-2007, 03:42 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Chris B - 04-13-2007, 09:28 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Marcus Hortensius Castus - 07-31-2007, 04:15 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 07-31-2007, 11:48 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Craig Gascoigne - 08-01-2007, 12:46 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Craig Gascoigne - 08-01-2007, 12:51 AM
Re: making an aspis - by M. Demetrius - 08-01-2007, 03:05 AM
Re: making an aspis - by M. Demetrius - 08-06-2007, 11:32 PM
Re: making an aspis - by PMBardunias - 09-10-2007, 02:50 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 09-10-2007, 07:05 PM
Re: making an aspis - by PMBardunias - 09-10-2007, 07:54 PM
Re: making an aspis - by PMBardunias - 09-10-2007, 07:57 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 09-10-2007, 08:03 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Dan Diffendale - 09-10-2007, 08:57 PM
Re: making an aspis - by PMBardunias - 09-10-2007, 10:13 PM
Aspides - by Paullus Scipio - 09-11-2007, 12:50 AM
Re: making an aspis - by hoplite14gr - 09-11-2007, 06:35 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Anonymous - 09-11-2007, 08:55 AM
Aspides - by Paullus Scipio - 09-12-2007, 02:24 AM
Re: making an aspis - by PMBardunias - 09-12-2007, 01:50 PM
Re: making an aspis - by The Wulf - 12-28-2007, 11:02 PM
Aspis construction - by Paullus Scipio - 12-28-2007, 11:28 PM
Re: making an aspis - by The Wulf - 12-28-2007, 11:52 PM
Aspis construction - by Paullus Scipio - 12-29-2007, 01:18 AM
Re: making an aspis - by The Wulf - 12-29-2007, 01:56 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 12-29-2007, 01:56 PM
Re: making an aspis - by The Wulf - 12-29-2007, 04:53 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 12-29-2007, 09:29 PM
Aspis construction - by Paullus Scipio - 12-29-2007, 10:15 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 12-30-2007, 12:44 PM
Aspis construction - by Paullus Scipio - 12-30-2007, 10:51 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 12-31-2007, 12:20 PM
Re: making an aspis - by PMBardunias - 12-31-2007, 11:24 PM
Aspis Construction - by Paullus Scipio - 12-31-2007, 11:50 PM
Aspis construction - by Paullus Scipio - 01-01-2008, 12:17 AM
Aspis construction - by Paullus Scipio - 01-01-2008, 02:58 AM
Re: making an aspis - by PMBardunias - 01-01-2008, 04:01 PM
Aspis construction - by Paullus Scipio - 01-01-2008, 09:46 PM
Re: making an aspis - by geala - 01-02-2008, 07:13 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-02-2008, 03:03 PM
Re: making an aspis - by PMBardunias - 01-02-2008, 09:12 PM
Aspis construction - by Paullus Scipio - 01-02-2008, 11:06 PM
Re: making an aspis - by PMBardunias - 01-03-2008, 05:15 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-03-2008, 05:33 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-18-2008, 07:19 PM
Aspis Construction - by Paullus Scipio - 01-19-2008, 05:37 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Lochinvar - 01-21-2008, 06:40 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-21-2008, 08:04 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Lochinvar - 01-22-2008, 12:35 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-22-2008, 03:28 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Lochinvar - 01-22-2008, 05:08 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Marcus Germanicus Ferox - 01-23-2008, 07:51 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Lochinvar - 01-23-2008, 08:34 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Marcus Germanicus Ferox - 01-23-2008, 09:06 AM
Re: making an aspis - by hoplite14gr - 01-23-2008, 09:53 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Lochinvar - 01-23-2008, 10:50 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-23-2008, 11:55 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-23-2008, 12:48 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-23-2008, 12:50 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-23-2008, 12:50 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-23-2008, 12:53 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Lochinvar - 01-23-2008, 12:58 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Lochinvar - 01-23-2008, 12:59 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-23-2008, 01:06 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-23-2008, 01:07 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Marcus Germanicus Ferox - 01-23-2008, 01:08 PM
Re: making an aspis - by M. Demetrius - 01-23-2008, 01:42 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-23-2008, 01:43 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-23-2008, 03:44 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Marcus Germanicus Ferox - 01-24-2008, 11:11 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Marcus Ginintonicus - 12-28-2011, 01:43 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 12-28-2011, 06:37 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 12-28-2011, 06:43 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Marcus Ginintonicus - 12-28-2011, 08:13 AM
Re: making an aspis - by barcid - 12-28-2011, 09:31 AM
Re: making an aspis - by hoplite14gr - 12-28-2011, 05:55 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Marcus Ginintonicus - 12-28-2011, 07:50 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 12-28-2011, 10:25 PM
Re: making an aspis - by hoplite14gr - 12-29-2011, 05:47 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 12-29-2011, 06:58 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Eric - 12-30-2011, 10:38 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 12-30-2011, 07:07 PM
Re: making an aspis - by richard robinson - 12-31-2011, 06:27 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Eric - 12-31-2011, 11:07 AM
Re: making an aspis - by john dann - 01-03-2012, 01:25 AM
Re: making an aspis - by M. Demetrius - 01-03-2012, 06:01 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Marcus Ginintonicus - 01-03-2012, 09:38 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-03-2012, 10:34 PM
Re: making an aspis - by hoplite14gr - 01-03-2012, 11:29 PM
Re: making an aspis - by john dann - 01-05-2012, 01:48 AM
Re: making an aspis - by john dann - 01-05-2012, 02:05 AM
Re: making an aspis - by PMBardunias - 01-07-2012, 05:32 AM
Re: making an aspis - by M. Demetrius - 01-07-2012, 07:44 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Marcus Ginintonicus - 01-07-2012, 07:55 PM
Re: making an aspis - by PMBardunias - 01-07-2012, 10:46 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-08-2012, 12:00 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Athena Areias - 01-08-2012, 12:40 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Athena Areias - 01-08-2012, 03:47 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-08-2012, 05:21 AM
Re: making an aspis - by M. Demetrius - 01-08-2012, 09:02 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Athena Areias - 01-08-2012, 10:57 PM
Re: making an aspis - by PMBardunias - 01-09-2012, 01:30 AM
Re: making an aspis - by PMBardunias - 01-09-2012, 01:30 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Athena Areias - 01-09-2012, 06:30 PM
Re: making an aspis - by john dann - 01-15-2012, 03:17 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-16-2012, 01:05 AM
Re: making an aspis - by john dann - 01-17-2012, 02:48 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-17-2012, 04:31 AM
Re: making an aspis - by PMBardunias - 01-18-2012, 11:49 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-20-2012, 08:48 PM
Re: making an aspis - by PMBardunias - 01-22-2012, 10:31 AM
Re: making an aspis - by MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 01-31-2012, 12:07 PM
Re: making an aspis - by MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 02-20-2012, 01:14 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-20-2012, 03:04 PM
Re: making an aspis - by MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 02-20-2012, 07:33 PM
Re: making an aspis - by D B Campbell - 02-20-2012, 07:48 PM
Re: making an aspis - by MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 02-20-2012, 08:19 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Daniel S. - 02-25-2012, 07:58 PM
Re: making an aspis - by john dann - 02-28-2012, 04:47 AM
Re: making an aspis - by Daniel S. - 02-28-2012, 04:52 PM
Re: making an aspis - by Lucius Verecundus - 05-27-2012, 12:55 PM

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