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Furca, show yours
#16
Hmmm, I've long thought the basic T-shape was wrong. Wouldn't it be referred to as a crucis in the sources, rather than a furca - a 'fork'. I Have both a T-Stick and a Fork, taken from a tree. Both seem to work.

But I'd say fork is the way to go...
~ Paul Elliott

The Last Legionary
This book details the lives of Late Roman legionaries garrisoned in Britain in 400AD. It covers everything from battle to rations, camp duties to clothing.
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#17
Trajan's column is still unclear in showing a cross shaped furca. In one case, it looks more like equipment is fastened to the soldiers dolabra! I really don't see a cross shaped stick. Once again, it's called a furca "fork".
It is what I'll make mine.
T.Fabius Rufio/Jeff Crean
LEG~XX

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx">www.larp.com/legioxx
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#18
So what would be the best way to get a fork shaped wooden pole? How could you make one? Or what tree's or bush's branches grow naturaly in a fork shape?

vale
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
www.LEGIOXI.be
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#19
Well my eyes don't see anything on Trajan's Column other than a straight stick with lots of stuff tied to it. Where is the cross or the fork?
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Leg XX VV
Tony Dah m

Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
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#20
If you look directly below the second leg in the top row, the bundle below is backwards from the rest, and you can see the vertical pole extending above the crossbar.

So at least one of them shows a crossed stick.

Probably to get a forked stick, except by accident, one would have to find a tree with two branches making the letter Y after the central stick were cut out. I'll go walk in the woods and see what I can find. But to get the fork sticks big enough to hold much weight, it would be necessary to trim a good bit from the lower part of the vertical, if the trees over there are like the trees over here.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#21
Quote:Wouldn't it be referred to as a crucis in the sources, rather than a furca - a 'fork'.
Good point. 'Furca' also means 'pitchfork' according to an Intertran translation. Did legionaries ever use them for building?
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#22
Quote:If you look directly below the second leg in the top row, the bundle below is backwards from the rest, and you can see the vertical pole extending above the crossbar.

So at least one of them shows a crossed stick.

Sorry. It doesn't look like the back of a furca to me. It looks like something with 45 degree ange supports, like a chair. Perhaps the furcas were forks, with a t-bar added for stability? That way, one could make a fork, and secure it with a crossbar??? maybe, a furcrucis!
T.Fabius Rufio/Jeff Crean
LEG~XX

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx">www.larp.com/legioxx
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#23
Collins lists one of the definitions as "forked stick". That's getting pretty close to the mark?
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#24
Frontinus, Strat. 4.1.7, explains that Marius introduced the method of bundling military equipment and suspending it from forked poles (furcae). I suppose a handle with a cross-bar could loosely be described as "forked".

But Festus claims that "aerumnulae are what Plautus calls the little forks (furcae) to which travellers attach their baggage in order to carry it. Since Gaius Marius reportedly used them, they were later called muli Mariani."

So the real name for your forked pole may be an aerumnula.

(Sir Ian Richmond noted that this method of suspending gear from a pole is shown only once on Trajan's Column, and suggested that either (a) the artist illustrated the kit in this way to show all the different bits and pieces that were normally wrapped up out of sight, or (b) the men in this scene were marching to a kit inspection.)
posted by Duncan B Campbell
https://ninth-legion.blogspot.com/
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#25
Quote:...this method of suspending gear from a pole is shown only once on Trajan's Column...
Thanks for that post, Mr. Campbell. Are there any other places where Romans are depicted in similar fashion of portage, or are we basing the whole argument on one sketchy baggage pack, on only one monument?

It's safe to say that they carried their baggage and personal gear somehow, and that the backpack or packbasket was probably not the way, since that mode isn't shown on anything I have seen. A pole of some kind is as old as anyone knows, and a pretty good way to haul a bundle. And a single stick with no support sticks only will work for a very small load, and we have good evidence that soldiers carried a substantial load. I think we can rule out a stick with no branches. A cross-lashed stick would work, as we who have carried gear can attest, but I have to agree with the simple (Occam's Razor, anyone?) forked stick as just as likely.

Would any object if a legionary came to one of your marches having his gear tied to a "pitchfork" shaped stick? There's more than one way to make one of those from wood, even bending wood from a single pole, as is common all over the world. And the fork would have uses inside the camp, as well, once the gear was unpacked.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#26
Quote:Would any object if a legionary came to one of your marches having his gear tied to a "pitchfork" shaped stick? There's more than one way to make one of those from wood, even bending wood from a single pole, as is common all over the world.

I would probably try to steal it :lol:

I'd very much appreciate practical info on how to make such a fork. I've been using a cross-shaphed one too but would very much like to try out a forked one!

Vale,
Jef
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
www.LEGIOXI.be
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#27
There's also another possible logical reason for naming the soldier's marching pack the furca. According to Smith's Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities p.563;

"...the name of an instrument of punishment. It was a piece of wood in the form of the letter A, which was placed upon the shoulders of the offender, who>ge hands were tied to it. Slaves were frequently punished in this way, and were obliged to carry about the furca wherever they went (Donat. ad Ter. Andr. iii. 5. 12 ; Pint. CorioL 24 ; Plant. Cas. ii. 6. 37) ; whence the appellation of furcifer was applied to a man as a term of reproach. (Cic. in Vatin. 6.) The furca was used in the ancient mode of capital punishment among the Romans ; the criminal was tied to it, and then scourged to death. (Liv. i. 26 ; Suet. Ner. 49.) Thepatibulum was also an instrument of punishment, resembling the furca ; it appears to have been in the form of the letter n. ( Plaut. Mil. ii. 4. 7, MostelL i. 1. 53.) Both the furca and patibulum were also employed as crosses, to which criminals were nailed (infurca suspendere. Dig. 48. tit. 13. s. 6' ; tit. 19. s. 28. § 15 ; tit. 19. s. 38). See Lipsius, de Cruce.
http://www.ancientlibrary.com/smith-dgra/0570.html

Having been used to their baggage being carried for them, it would be typical of soldiers to give the new marching pack a nickname that mirrored a device of punishment, particularly with regard to this part of the definition, "It was a piece of wood in the form of the letter A, which was placed upon the shoulders of the offender, whose hands were tied to it. Slaves were frequently punished in this way, and were obliged to carry about the furca wherever they went".

It didn't need to be literally forked, but it perhaps evoked how they felt about being forced to carry the weight on the march, just as they weren't literally mules but certainly felt like it.

It was most certainly a yoke, and even an instrument of torture.

Plutarch refers to it here in his Moralia:
70 Why do they call such persons as stand convicted of theft or of any other servile offences furciferi?

Is this also evidence of the carefulness of the men of old? For anyone who had found guilty of some knavery a slave reared in his own household used to command him to take up the forked stick, which they put under their carts, and to proceed through the community or the neighbourhood, observed of all observers, fthat they might distrust him and be on their guard against him in the future. This stick we call a prop, and the Romans furca ("fork"); wherefore also he who has borne it about is called furcifer ("fork-bearer").

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/R ... ns*/C.html

See also here: http://www.arapacana.com/glossary/f.html
furca : fork; the cross-bar of a cross used for punishment in the Roman Empire, such as the cross-bar used to suspend and execute Jesus Christ; a general term for punishment. The Christ carried a furca to Calvary, not the entire cross. Cf. naturam expelles furca.

Clearly the crossbar doesn't necessarily need to be fork shaped, but the name is more applied to the crossbar's use as a form of punishment also. Simply put, furca is the general word used by Romans for a yoke type implement used for torture and punishment. It not even needing to be Y-shaped is also mentioned in Rance's 'The Fulcum, the Late Roman and Byzantine Testudo: the Germanization of Roman Infantry Tactics?'

"More to the point, the Latin furca [i]simply does not mean a “wedge,â€
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#28
Good info, Jim. I wonder why this hasn't been researched more in the past? I guess we fall into the tradition of "...well, www. whatever says to make it like this, so we do.

I will see if I can find out how to make a fork, even a two pronged one, from a small green tree. It shouldn't be much more than soaking the green wood, splitting the fork, and holding in place until it dries. It would probably need a crossing support, as many do, across the bottom of the tines. Worth a try, I think.

Like I needed another project....
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#29
Quote:If you look directly below the second leg in the top row, the bundle below is backwards from the rest, and you can see the vertical pole extending above the crossbar.

So at least one of them shows a crossed stick.

Color me stupid, but I still don't see the crossbar.
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Leg XX VV
Tony Dah m

Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
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#30
Look at the very tops of the middle three furcas:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... cks_01.JPG

Most actually curve a bit, as if weighed down by the kit.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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