Fake imperial gallic helmet!?

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

It is not at all certain that this Pompeian helmet is a military one. Could be a helmet of the Vigiles or even some Gladiator helmet. No one knows.

M.VIB.M.

[Matthew Amt]

Could the riveted neck guard be a repair rather that an original manufacturing? MAybe the original neck guard was damaged but the helmet bowl itself was intact, so rather than replaceing the whole helmet, the neck guard was replaced...

Just a thought.

It's hard to imagine a calamity which could do that much damage to the neckguard yet leave the rest of the bowl untouched. Other iron helmets are found in dumps or trash piles basically intact! The problem is that almost nothing about this helmet matches what we already know--no occipital ridges; the cheekpieces are not only crudely shaped but lacking any flanges, ridges, or raised panels; the crest knob is unique; the brass edging is unusually wide and crude; the rosettes on the bowl are out of place, as Crispus notes; the brow band is unique, crude, and secured by more rivets than any other helmet; etc. Those are not crimes, but we just expect to see SOMEthing that we recognize! Add all that to the preservation anomalies, and we get really suspicious.

By the way, it is not necessarily a compliment when a reenactor says, "Gosh, I've NEVER seen ANYthing LIKE it!" (In reference to either a reproduction or a supposed antique!) It means we can't compare it to a known original example. Makes us uncomfortable. We prefer to recognize stuff!

Matthew

[john roberts]

Might it possibly be something made by a non-Roman in imitation of Roman gear? People all over the Mediterranean certainly imitated Greek helmets with varying degrees of accuracy, so why not Roman?

[M.VAL.BRUTUS]

Matt,

I agree that this helmet is suspicious at best, There are a lot of things on it that make it easy to discredit. It is in remarkably good condition for being the ground (or wherever) for a thousand years or longer. Further something tells me that whereever this piece may have been found there should have been other artifacts present also, and to the best of the knowledge presented here that doesn't seem to be the case. I can't imagine a situation where you would find one remarkable preserved helmet by itself, that's a hard pill to swallow. So I believe it would help greatly if we could understand the context of this "find", I think that would shed invaluable insight on this piece.

I was merely suggesting a possible reason for the riveted neck guard. I think this helmet is dubious at best.

[Doc]

This helmet has too many features that are amiss with respect to other helmets that we know about. However, finding it alone does not necessarily qualify it as strange or fake. I believe that the Gallic D was found by itself in a river in Germany (cannot recall which at the moment). I know there were others possibly the Italic D.

[Gaius Colletti]

It is not at all certain that this Pompeian helmet is a military one. Could be a helmet of the Vigiles or even some Gladiator helmet. No one knows.

M.VIB.M.

Isn't it very likely the Pompeian helmet was not a military one, given that armed troops were not allowed in Italy

[Celer]

Isn't it very likely the Pompeian helmet was not a military one, given that armed troops were not allowed in Italy

Salve, just to point out about the above quote: The Herculaneum 'soldier' had belts, sword and dagger with him when he was found, and there was a naval base only a short way away, almost certainly with marines.

Vale

Celer.

[jvrjenivs]

It is not at all certain that this Pompeian helmet is a military one. Could be a helmet of the Vigiles or even some Gladiator helmet. No one knows.

M.VIB.M.

Isn't it very likely the Pompeian helmet was not a military one, given that armed troops were not allowed in Italy

Mmm, what about the 'Herculaneum soldier', which was found with his cingulum, pugio an gladius, or the fleet soldiers? Not to mention the pretorian and urban cohorts.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

The Herculaneum soldier was maybe a marine indeed, but the helmet of Pompeii would be more likely a Vigiles helmet or a helmet worn by security forces around the Ludus, or even a city militia. However, they found exactly 1 such helmet in Pompeii. That makes the idea of it being military very remote...

M.VIB.M.

[caiusbeerquitius]

Maybe a helmet of an eques gladiator.

[Matthew Amt]

Might it possibly be something made by a non-Roman in imitation of Roman gear? People all over the Mediterranean certainly imitated Greek helmets with varying degrees of accuracy, so why not Roman?

Hmmm, I don't think so. When a helmet style was adopted by a culture from some other culture, sure, it generally underwent some stylistic changes. But the new version was still made by competent craftsmen, and never looked unskilled like this one does. Even Roman helmets based on Celtic styles show more artistry than this, and we KNOW they were crappy!

Plus, I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a non-Roman version of a Roman helmet from this general era. Seems kinda odd, granted, but maybe it's because all the helmet-making cultures around the Mediterranean world were already Roman-ruled, or if still independent they stuck to their own styles for the most part.

Sure would be interesting to get a closer look at this thing, though!

Matthew

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

If i remember correctly, Christian Koepfer made a replica of the helmet from Pompeii.

M.VIB.M.

[john roberts]

The Herculaneum soldier was maybe a marine indeed, but the helmet of Pompeii would be more likely a Vigiles helmet or a helmet worn by security forces around the Ludus, or even a city militia. However, they found exactly 1 such helmet in Pompeii. That makes the idea of it being military very remote...

M.VIB.M.

There were 2 nearly identical Imperial Italic Type A helmets found in Pompeii. I don't know where or how they were found. If found together, they may have been the only specimens in town. If widely separated, there may have been many more unfound. I doubt they were gladiatorial. Many monuments, statuettes and grafitti in Pompeii show the full-visored helmet in use at the time of the eruption. Of course, they might have been worn in the pompa that preceded the munera.

[caiusbeerquitius]

Are there full visored helmet depictions of eques gladiators?

[john roberts]

Are there full visored helmet depictions of eques gladiators?

Yes, on the Umbricius Scaurus relief the first pair shown are mounted equites with lances, round shields, at least one laminated thigh guard and full-visored helmets with brims and side-tubes. Besides, there were all those visored helmets found in the gladiator barracks. I think that open-faced helmets for gladiators were probably gone by the time of Claudius. Some venatores may have continued to use them for a while, before they abandoned armor altogether.