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Quote:Poftim:12szu4fv Wrote:It's about 46"x39"
It is slightly curved on the sides, like the older square shields, but not as drastic.
I know yours isn't curved, but my dad said curving it would make it hella stronger, so I did. Besides, I figure that with all the different places making shields, someone, somewhere must of had one curved like that.
Yeah well, that's the thing. While we can agree on flat shields when it comes to Late Roman ones, there have never been umbos found for curved shields. So that's why we figure that curved shields went out of fashion together with the rectangular ones. Most Late Roman shields were dished anyway.
Robert,
I've been meaning to ask about this for some time. I'm sure it's been discussed/debated (probably in excruciating detail) elsewhere on RAT, but what's the prevailing wisdom on the shift from elongated flat ovals to rounder dished ones? What's the rough timeline we have? Was the shift more prevelant in some areas than others? Britain, for example, I would expect to be slightly behind the curve (pun intended) the farther you get into the V century.
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Also, is an oval shield still called a scutum? Or is that a clipeus? Parma is totally round and only carried by musicians, right?
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Quote:I've been meaning to ask about this for some time. I'm sure it's been discussed/debated (probably in excruciating detail) elsewhere on RAT, but what's the prevailing wisdom on the shift from elongated flat ovals to rounder dished ones? What's the rough timeline we have? Was the shift more prevelant in some areas than others? Britain, for example, I would expect to be slightly behind the curve (pun intended) the farther you get into the V century.
The wisdom is that this changed during the 3rd c. like the rest (square scutum, gladius, pilum, lorica segnentata and Imperial Gallic helmets). There's hardly a rough timeline but I see no reason to suppose that Britain would have been lagging behind. And no reason at all to look for these changes as late as the 5th c.! Britain was a very militarised diocese, prone to see these changes earlier than, say, Spain or North Africa. Troop movements would bring these changes soon enough, and I would say the downfall of Allectus' government would be a perfect time to look for new-style arms and armour to begin arriving in Britain.
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So you're suggesting the rounder dished shields as early as 296? How come the VAST majority of IV/V cent reenactors still use oblong flats? I suppose the difficulty involved in dishing.
And again, what's the proper name for oval shields?
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Quote:So you're suggesting the rounder dished shields as early as 296?
I'd say that by mid IIIrd century oval dished shields were the norm, as we can see from the Dura finds. 8)
Quote:How come the VAST majority of IV/V cent reenactors still use oblong flats? I suppose the difficulty involved in dishing.
That's it, Franklin! :wink:
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Well then by God I'm forging ahead! Where can I find an instructional on building a dished round?
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Quote:Well then by God I'm forging ahead! Where can I find an instructional on building a dished round?
Here:
http://cannesetbatons.free.fr/fabriquer_un_bouclier.htm
In French, but there's an English summary.
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Ah, Robert's magic hat... :lol:
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Excellent!
I hate to keep harping, guys, but again what is the proper name for ovals? :oops:
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Quote:I'd say that by mid IIIrd century oval dished shields were the norm, as we can see from the Dura finds.
This was my other question...the 250-300AD estimate is borne up by both artistic *and* archaeological evidence?
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Quote:Scutum.
Thanks! Sorry to hassle. :oops:
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Well, we've got plenty of artistic evidence but, from the mid-Third century Dura boards, there is a gap in 'solid' evidend to the early Sixth century Egyptian boards.
Hardly surprising, think for instance about how many rectangular boards have been recovered! 
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Indeed, very few scuta seem to have survived - small wonder if you consider their perishable material. But what was found seems to agree with the artistic evidence so far.
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As far as late ovals go (and again, I apologize, I'm sure this has been debated elsewhere) the majority have been found with horizontal grips. But some have been found with vertical, correct?
I've fought (admittedly SCA style) with both and vertical grips just FEEL so much better. You have tons more control and your arm doesn't tire nearly as quickly.
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