Bearskin or wolfskin?

[M. Demetrius]

I agree with the Grizzly, and for practical purposes, the black bear, too, just because they didn't exist during Roman times in Roman zones, but I'm still struggling for some kind of consensus on where the "authenticity line" should be drawn.

American ash trees make fine spear handles, but they're the wrong wood. Is it still ok? If that's ok, then would a Grizzly cub fur be ok, too? I dunno. What if hickory dolabra handles are readily available as hardware store pick handles? Can we use them?

And that's where the arguments typically begin. "he1 says yes, he2 says no, and neither is really using the identical materials in the first place, so what's to do?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

How do we know black bears didn't exist back the in Europe?

And not all N American brown bears are grizzlies...but then it just brings me back to the point of legality?
And a grizzly would be a bit on the large side anyway, Peronis.....you wouldn't be able to wear a pelt, even if it was native to Europe trust me..they are BMF's.

[M. Demetrius]

trust me..they are BMF's

Byron, isn't that Canadian for "Rather Large Bear?" 8)

[Aetius Helvius Merula]

No Byron I wasn't taking the p**s!
Simply 'Grizzly' furs would not have been native to Europe.

So that's what that phrase means. Though, I was certain it wasn't an odd choice in beverages

What Byron said. Even if I could afford and legally own a piece of Old Ephraim, I doubt I could wear him all day. Though if I could, it would mean some serious totemic power. I'd be my own signum

Aren't brown bears a little smaller than grizzlies, and without the characteristic hump? I'd thought that they were a specific subtype, rather than just 2 names for the same bear.

[Tarbicus]

I remember IIRC Luca posting a photo of a faux bearskin used by a group. Has anyone else actually tried it? It's not as if there are those unable to give it a go here :wink:

Reference photos $15: HERE

Fake bear rug $160: HERE

Imitation bear claws if needed $11: HERE

It seems to me getting the snout right, and the look of the fur, are the biggest hurdles. Would oiling the fur into clumps do the trick? How about a balsa snout with the proper shape, and wearing down or depillating the fur there with tweezers? Quality glass eyes are available, I'm sure. Polymer clay would be ideal for better teeth. all of those suggestions only apply if you think the skull was kept intact, but that's debatable.

Sounds like a fun project to be honest.

Then there's http://www.taxidermy.com/ and http://www.taxidermy.net/ supply a lot of stuff you'd need, including artificial noses. http://www.taxidermy.com/cat/17/bighorn.html

[Tarbicus]

ANd here we have Italian bears at the Parco Nazionale d'Abbruzzo: http://www.parcoabruzzo.it/homeframe.as ... ash=art459

AT LAST!!!!!

Another, now deceased after wandering across the border into Bavaria:


http://rankandvile.dailyflute.com/?p=336

[M. Demetrius]

Looks like something I'd hesitate to attack with only spear and gladius, that's for sure.

[Tarbicus]

Oh I wouldn't say that. A jar of honey, a bit of a tickle, he'd be like a big cuddly teddy bear.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Sure......just like Yogi-bear!! :lol:

And yes, the Grizzly is a larger subspecies of brown bear, then next up the ladder is the Kodiak....then the Polar, size wise.

But jims idea is a good one, but would require talent, and a taxidermy course..... :roll:

[Gaius]

Aren't brown bears a little smaller than grizzlies, and without the characteristic hump? I'd thought that they were a specific subtype, rather than just 2 names for the same bear.

Grizzly is just a common name to identify some regional populations of brown bear; this is why the latin names exists: all Eurasiatic and North American brown bear are included into the same species: Ursus arctos. Some refers to Grizzlies as a subespecies: U. arctos horribilis. It is not clear for the biologists the subspecific boundary, i do not know if this taxonomic adscription has been made based on molecular analysis or it is only based on size (i, as biologist, do not trust much in the subspecific distinctions). In any case, not all North american bears are grizzlies, which i also think are far too big to be weared upon the helmet of the standard-bearer. But if you are able to find a North American brown bear fur that matches in size that of a European one, from a strictly biological sense there is no problem to be used. They are both the same, there is also variability in size and appearance into the European Brown bear: a Polish bear is somewhat different than a Spanish one, for example...

Valete

[Marcus Julius]

Sourcing? Sub-species is important, but probably not as important as actually not using a coyote or wolf when the Romans used bears or big cats.

Peronis, I think European bears are a little on the scarce side, and importing furs into the US would probably be illegal.....

Wouldn't be illegal. Just EXTREMELY cost prohibitive. CITES (Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species) permits would be required for the transport between countries. It may be possible, as someone mentioned with the lion, to get one from a zoo, etc. If it has to cross a border, though, you're looking into a lot of money for the permits. That's after you outbid everyone else who is also interested in that 'rare' hide.

[Tarbicus]

If you want to go the real hide route, keep an eye out for pre-CITES/1947 animal rugs.

FOR EXAMPLE THIS LEOPARD or THIS LION.

You'll maybe find it a bit tricky getting them shipped from one continent to another, though. That's if you want a non-bear skin, but auction houses seem to get them as well.

[Marcus Mummius]

Are there any ideas if a leopard skin would have been common and if it would have been linked to specific units?

Vale,

[Crispvs]

I have always been led to believe that big cats were reserved for the Praetorian Guard. I am not sure of the source of this information though.

Crispvs

[Marcus Mummius]

I have always been led to believe that big cats were reserved for the Praetorian Guard. I am not sure of the source of this information though.

Crispvs

Indeed, I've seen this stated for the use of a Lion pelt too... But never saw it extrapolated to 'big cats'.

A lot of the sculptural evidence could be as well interpreted as a leopard or a bear pelt.

Vale,