Illerup Adal

[garrelt]

2 original swords and 1 replica.
The marks on the edge of the original swords look that these become blocking another weapon (sword) with the sword edge.
All swords on display are pattern welded.

[Medicus matt]

The marks on the edge of the original swords look that these become blocking another weapon (sword) with the sword edge.
.

OR they're as a result of the ritual 'killing' of the weapon before it was thrown in.

[Medicus matt]

But changing tact for a sec, see that nice spear head near the top right stone? What are the 2 cylinrical items with the length ways groove/ridges? The shaft or something else?

[attachment=0:19923gje]<!-- ia0 spear.JPG<!-- ia0 [/attachment:19923gje]

It's the shaft, with a break in it. It's 12 sided (I think) in section, rather than cylindrical. One of the things I found surprising about the spear shafts from Illerup, Nydam, Kragehul etc is that they're not just tapered to fit in the socket, they're shouldered so that the run from the socket onto the shaft is all at the same level.

And some of them have carved decoration.

[Sascha]

Some Illerup Finds are actual shown in Kalkriese Germany:

http://www.imperium-konflikt-mythos.de/ ... /konflikt/

http://www.imperium-konflikt-mythos.de/ ... /konflikt/



:wink:

[martijn.wijnhoven]

This interesting webpage contains many photos and papers on the Illerup Adal finds.

Papers:
[url:3prtw13f]http://www.illerup.dk/deepweb.php?top=30&language=1[/url]
Photos:
[url:3prtw13f]http://www.illerup.dk/deepweb.php?top=29&language=1[/url]

Cheers,
Martijn

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Thanks Matt, that was what had me wondering. Interesting!

[nithijo]

With the wonders of modern science, DNA testing etc, I don't doubt that the origins of the victims could be ascertained, but it will probably be a question of time, resources and money as to whether anyone will bother......

If they find teeth (but I didn't seem them mentioned in the article), I think they can do isotope analysis on the enamel to determine regions the individual lived in.

You want teeth?

Ask and Illerup will provide!

http://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeolog ... r_dead.php

[garrelt]

The marks on the edge of the original swords look that these become blocking another weapon (sword) with the sword edge.
.

OR they're as a result of the ritual 'killing' of the weapon before it was thrown in.

A lot of spearheads on display in the Moesgard museum (Arhus DK) and The Nydam hall (Thorsberg) in Schleswig (GE) show the same notches/marks.
These spearheads are not bent at all.
All swords on display are from a very good manufacture quality.
All pattern welded with very sharp edges.

Something different :
This year I was at the Moesgard museum again, same next year, and bought the book :
Illerup Adal- ein archaologischer Zauberspiel by Jorgen Ilkjaer.
Only Available at the museum store for 188 Dkr (33,54 US - 21,02 BP - 25,23 EUR).
In this book a distinction is made between a civilian and a military belt.

The civilian belt is worn under the tunic trough the loops of the trousers.
This is a belt, about 2cm wide, with a very simple brass/bronze or iron D-buckle with or without a belt plate.
No decorations and no strap end.
From this belt can hang:
A small knife in leather scabbard, no metallic or other decorations
A leather circular pouch, which can contain a comb,toothpicks, a dice, beads, coins or scrap metal.
A whetting steel, this looks like an awl.

The military belt is worn outside the tunic.
This belt is wider than the civilian belt, about 4cm wide, and can have Brass/bronze, Silver or silver plated belt plates, strap ends and buckles .
From this belt can hang:
A fighting knife (approx a 20cm blade) in a leather scabbard with no metallic decorations.
A a pouch containing a Quartzite stone and tinder .
A steel striker for making fire.
Both the pouch and striker are hung, by a leather thong, from a brass/bronze ring which is attached to the belt by means of a riveted belt plate with a loop.

[Medicus matt]

Only Available at the museum store for 188 Dkr (33,54 US - 21,02 BP - 25,23 EUR).
.

Also available in English from Amazon.
[url:1392owld]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Illerup-Adal-Archaeology-Magic-Mirror/dp/8787334372/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1281264667&sr=1-7[/url]

[Robert Vermaat]

In this book a distinction is made between a civilian and a military belt.

Interesting! That would answer some questions about Late Roman fashions and belts. We know of trousers with belt-loops, so that could explain some questions as to what was worn, a belt or no belt. I must say that I can easily accept that Roman civilians also wore such undecorated belts below their tunics. Ammianus mentioned that punished soldiers could not wear their belts - I suspect that they could keep their trousers on. :wink:

[Medicus matt]

In this book a distinction is made between a civilian and a military belt.

Interesting! That would answer some questions about Late Roman fashions and belts. We know of trousers with belt-loops, so that could explain some questions as to what was worn, a belt or no belt. I must say that I can easily accept that Roman civilians also wore such undecorated belts below their tunics. Ammianus mentioned that punished soldiers could not wear their belts - I suspect that they could keep their trousers on. :wink:

In the english translation, they use the term 'personal' rather than 'civilian', which makes more sense I think. The difference between what's worn above and below the tunic doesn't seem to be as simple as 'military' and 'non-military'.

[garrelt]

Well it is all in the translation then.
I have the German version of the book.
Non military (Civilian) in Danish is translated as Civile.

As a warrior all my military stuff is personal.
I wear different things when I'm on duty or of duty.
Just sharing the Info, Nothing more Nothing Less.

[Robert Vermaat]

In the english translation, they use the term 'personal' rather than 'civilian', which makes more sense I think. The difference between what's worn above and below the tunic doesn't seem to be as simple as 'military' and 'non-military'.

I'm not sure if I agree with that. To a Germanic warrior, I doubt that a belt was anything other than 'personal', the only difference being that one would be worn in battle and the other every day. That 'warrior' belt would be wider and studded with metal, while the other would be simple and undecorated.

In a Roman context, the decorated belts (cingulae) are likely to have either been part of the material issued by the state to soldiers and possibly civil servants, or bought by the soldiers themselves. Either way, it was related to the military outfit and not worn by civilians.

[Medicus matt]

I'm not sure if I agree with that. To a Germanic warrior, I doubt that a belt was anything other than 'personal', the only difference being that one would be worn in battle and the other every day. That 'warrior' belt would be wider and studded with metal, while the other would be simple and undecorated.

In a Roman context, the decorated belts (cingulae) are likely to have either been part of the material issued by the state to soldiers and possibly civil servants, or bought by the soldiers themselves. Either way, it was related to the military outfit and not worn by civilians.

Ah, sorry, I wasn't being very clear. I meant that the difference between what's suspended from the two belts doesn't seem to be as simple as military and non military. Whetstones under the tunic, firelighting kits worn above for example.

[Wagnijo]

In 2009 the remains of at least 200 young males was discovered
discovered not far from the main Illerup weaponsacrifice. The remains
shoved evidence of a violent death by edged weapons.

The remains are not directly connected to the known Illerup
weaponsacrifices, as the remains has been dated to the very early first
century and seems to have entered the lake in a single event.

This summer Skanderborg Museum and the University of Århus are going to
excavate the site.
Since only a very small part of the old seabed was excavated in 2009 (a
couple of promilles), it is
very likely that the number of sacrificed bodies will be signifcantly
larger than 200.

Cheers
Soren Larsen