Congratulations, Germany

[Jona Lendering]

There is just no Prussia anymore, no continuity

The first part is true; the second, however, is debatable. In fact, one of the main historical debates is about the question of continuity. Historians like Golo Mann have argued that there was no continuity between Prussia, Wilhelminian Germany, Weimar, the Third Reich, and the Bundesrepublik; others have said that there is continuity. The debate is related to the discussion about the "primacy of foreign politics" and the "primacy of the domestic politics"; continuists usually focus on foreign politics, discontinuists typically focus on domestic politics.

Which position is correct, I do not know. But the idea that there is continuity, is at least a respectable one; you cannot just say that Prussia no longer exists and that there is no continuity - that is too simple.

Final remark: I get the impression that the Prussia-Bavaria antigonism is experienced as more real in Munich than in Berlin. At least, I have seen posters with quasi official oaths to refrain from being Prussian and become Bavarian in Munich, but have never seen the opposite in Berlin. That the animosity is something from the past, seems slightly exaggerated.

[caiusbeerquitius]

and certainly there's no such thing like German-Berlin pomposity.

hock:
yeah, right:



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Not to mention the festival at the Brandenburg Gate yesterday. In a time of economic crisis it might have been an idea to save the tens of thousands of Euros on fireworks, or so...
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There is just no Prussia anymore, no continuity, however people by constructing oversimplified chains of causality like to be in denial about this.

Maybe, but that is not, what I did. Sorry. You want to see something that´s not there. I said that the history of the place makes it unsuited for being capital in my opinion. I NEVER said that there´s a continuity. AND I don´t think there´s a continuity. Just to have it spelled out.

it's regional capital Munich having the highest living standard of all Germany.

Sorry, but you are mixing up terms. "pompous" is not equal to "high living standard"

So IF there's anything like historic continuity in that respect we're talking about, you'll find it where Christian Koepfer lives.

No. You are very ill informed, AND you spread stereotypes. The area I live in and come from was the poorest in the whole of Germany until the 1970ies (Allgäu). It is not Bavaria, it´s a part of the State Bavaria. Bavaria lies, roughly, to the east of the river Lech, and south of the Danube. Munich, the Bavarian capital, has a left Government (SPD). Sorry. Hamburg and Munich have an equally high living standard.

these stereotypical and ignorant implied identification of ancienct Prussians with nowadays people

Sorry if I have to repeat myself, but I never drew this conclusion. As I said above, I have the impression that you either don´t want to understand what I say, or that you actually don´t understand it.

Alas sometimes people with separatist political agenda

That wouldn´t be me. I´m all about an integrated Europe. I just think the national states within it are obsolete. I´m against cultural "Gleichschaltung", because it makes us culturally poorer. I´m against nationalism. This statement again makes it clear to me that you don´t actually understand what I am saying.

It's simple modern politics, disguised as a dispute about Prussia, strangely coinciding with the remembrance day when we were united.

We have a communication problem here.
I was transferring a message to Jona, which makes him the adressee. He apparently didn´t see it this way. You weren´t addressed at all, intitially.

It indeed is a coincidence. As such, yesterday (November 9th) isn´t even a national holiday. You´re seeing or trying to see more than there actually is.

[caiusbeerquitius]

The first part is true; the second, however, is debatable. In fact, one of the main historical debates is about the question of continuity. Historians like Golo Mann have argued that there was no continuity between Prussia, Wilhelminian Germany, Weimar, the Third Reich, and the Bundesrepublik; others have said that there is continuity. The debate is related to the discussion about the "primacy of foreign politics" and the "primacy of the domestic politics"; continuists usually focus on foreign politics, discontinuists typically focus on domestic politics.

I see it completely differently, and not as structural: IMO it depends on socialization and enculturation. As soon as a majority of people in a given area are socialized and / or encultured in a different way, there is no longer a social or cultural continuity given. There may be certain singular continuities observed, but no general continuity can be given. Which would be the case for Prussia, IMO.

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

guys, relax.

i'm closing this one - to much modern politics etc.