Scutum hanger/Harness

[caiusbeerquitius]

But I posted evidence for mine...why are you discounting it?

Sorry, must have missed it... :wink:

[Magnus]

lol

[Dean Cunningham metalsmit]

Having not seen the dura report, does it detail where the rings are? I am making a shield right now and I have never liked the way most do it. It seems very impractical to me. The fayum suspension method on the other hand seems very practical.

[Publius Claudius Strabo]

Hi to all,

as a long time "just reading" member of RAT I feel a little honored that our reconstruction of a scutum carrying system finds it's way to this forum.

For our republican scuta we closely cooperated with Erik König, who showed us the position of 9 rings on the shields backside. Then came trial and error.
I / we don't pretend that this one and only correct way to carry the scutum, but it works quite well. You can carry the shield like a backpack with the weigth more or less evenly divided on both shoulders(important for long distance marches); when carrying the scutum with the grip, you can support it with hanging the rope to your left shoulder (a relief with the large republican scutum)

the function of the 2 rings near upper edge is not totally clear for us either - the picture with the guy carrying the shield with only 2 fingers was more like fun while thinking about it

why using rope? it's cheap, and everyone can adjust the length according to his size, with some simple knots

prior to this system we tried different types of leather harness, starting with Junkelmann
we still use these with our 1st century gear, but are planning ro revert mostly to "ring and rope"

[Magnus]

Having not seen the dura report, does it detail where the rings are? I am making a shield right now and I have never liked the way most do it. It seems very impractical to me. The fayum suspension method on the other hand seems very practical.

Well, if you haven't tried the "other" system, how can you know? And I've been using this one for about 3 years now and it is more than practical...speaking from experience.

[kranger3]

Is it possible that this ring arrangement might also be used (somehow) to help hold the weight of the shield during combat? I don't have my shield ready yet, so I cannot test it, but I'm reading a lot of complains from reenactors that the size of the hole for the grip does hurt the back of the hand (hence the need for some to add sheep skin, have a padded leather glove, etc.). If the rope/carrying arrangement can change the weight distribution and take a few pounds/kg off your left arm, maybe a different hand position could be used to solve the infamous "umbo is too small for my hand" problem?

Like I said, I don't have practical experience yet with the Roman shield to back this up, but it just popped to my mind looking at the rope arrangement, which is quite similar to what can be found on a Greek aspis...

[Dean Cunningham metalsmit]

Matt, let me re word my post: The times I have used that particular strapping system on my oval shield it seemed impractical. I would much rather explore something that on its face seems more practical and is supported by evidence. You seem very sensitive about this perhaps a bit too sensitive. I started this almost twenty years ago and every year I learn something new based on the evidence presented to me. If I didn't want to change ever I'd still be in my original kit, all hand made because that's what we did back then, but mostly wrong. I upgrade as time, money and better evidence allow. I not sure why that would be wrong or worthy of being lambasted as one of the "evidence aholics".

[caiusbeerquitius]

Dean, the Dura Shields have two oval rings, like this shield:

[attachment=3687]PICT1359.JPG[/attachment]

On the Dura shields the section of the rings is square, and they are from bronze. The cramp is iron. It goes through the shield, and is then spread. The ends are bent 90 degrees backwards and hammered back into the shield board. so on the outside you basically see a metal strip of about 6 cm length.

See also this sketch by Prof. S. James:

[attachment=3688]durashieldringnotesdetail.jpg[/attachment]

[Magnus]

Matt, let me re word my post: The times I have used that particular strapping system on my oval shield it seemed impractical. I would much rather explore something that on its face seems more practical and is supported by evidence. You seem very sensitive about this perhaps a bit too sensitive. I started this almost twenty years ago and every year I learn something new based on the evidence presented to me. If I didn't want to change ever I'd still be in my original kit, all hand made because that's what we did back then, but mostly wrong. I upgrade as time, money and better evidence allow. I not sure why that would be wrong or worthy of being lambasted as one of the "evidence aholics".

Well that which you wish to explore seems only to have been discovered on rectangular shields. So you may be looking at a system that wasn't used on ovals. Perhaps in using your oval shield with a sling you were using it wrong or improperly adjusted. Maybe its a body mechanics issue.

And you must tell me your technique for discerning emotion through text written on a monitor.

And speaking of evidence, the majority of it points to a sling system which allows the scutum to be carried on the side as depicted in most sculpture. It seems some only acknowledge evidence when it supports their argument. Lambasted.....nice word. I havent heard that in probably two decades.

[Dean Cunningham metalsmit]

Thanks Christian!

[Publius Claudius Strabo]

Is it possible that this ring arrangement might also be used (somehow) to help hold the weight of the shield during combat? I don't have my shield ready yet, so I cannot test it, but I'm reading a lot of complains from reenactors that the size of the hole for the grip does hurt the back of the hand (hence the need for some to add sheep skin, have a padded leather glove, etc.). If the rope/carrying arrangement can change the weight distribution and take a few pounds/kg off your left arm, maybe a different hand position could be used to solve the infamous "umbo is too small for my hand" problem?

Like I said, I don't have practical experience yet with the Roman shield to back this up, but it just popped to my mind looking at the rope arrangement, which is quite similar to what can be found on a Greek aspis...

Salve Quintus,

no, so far we haven't found a way for "our" system to support the hand during a combat situation. But as I wrote above we haven't a solution for all the rings. Perhaps our reconstruction is completly wrong, it's a result of trial and error, and we are still trying

I also think that the more flexible fighting style with the scutum is incompatible with the rather rigid attachments of the aspis. Mastering the scutum with one hand was probably one of the most grueling aspects of becoming a legionary

[Cavok]

Could they be for stacking shield and Pilum?
Mine allways falls over!

[Publius Claudius Strabo]

Perhaps, but I can't tell for sure

seeing all the stacked Scuta an Pila at events I always think of domino :wink:

[Cavok]

We will have to try it sir.
I am sure we will see each other at some event this year though I don't get out of jolly old Bayern much at Weekends!

[Paul Elliott]

I want to do this, I'm desperate for a good method of carriage. But a poster before me is right, those iron hooks aren't very common, I like to think a non-metal method was used... maybe wooden hooks? I don't know. If I can't find a method which is cheap, fast and works, I may create my own metal hook and strap arrangement!

I just use a strap, with two large hooks on the end that attach to the handle. I can easy un-hook it so I can use the scutum if need be.