Seeing the Nymphs Naked?

[Kegluneq]

There were all sorts of centurions - many of them directly commissioned from the equestrians and therefore educated men, others who spent their whole careers in peacetime, and so on. So not all of them were the barking hobnailed drill-sergeants of popular imagination!

On this note, I always wondered if the writing exercises at Vindolanda (e.g. TV II 118,119, 121, TV IV 854-6) were necessarily done by the children of Cerialis as is often assumed, or if they represent in part examples of adult learning. Not even necessarily by centurions though - if the Roman military was really a vehicle for literacy as is also argued, there must have been some educational method involved for soldiers at all levels.

[M. Demetrius]

Not all of the peoples that the Romans encountered, or that were included in the army were from cultures where literacy was common. Perhaps those "McGuffy Primers" were for auxilia that were being educated UP to the Roman military standard?

[Currahee Chris]

How about it- funny because I was going to post the same thing
(sans 22 years of service).

[Caballo]

Never thought of that- that is a REALLY good point.

[Epictetus]

Wild speculation ahead:

As [Minerva] spoke the goddess dispersed the mist and the land appeared. Then Ulysses rejoiced at finding himself again in his own land, and kissed the bounteous soil; he lifted up his hands and prayed to the nymphs, saying, "Naiad nymphs, daughters of Jove, I made sure that I was never again to see you, now therefore I greet you with all loving salutations, and I will bring you offerings as in the old days, if Jove's redoubtable daughter will grant me life, and bring my son to manhood."

Homer, Odyssey, Book 13

Could seeing the nymphs be a metaphor for returning to your native country?

Pro: The ancients loved to cite literature in obscure ways. The Romans also loved figures of speech, such as metaphors.

Con: If this was a sly nod to Homer, it is hard to explain the "naked" part. Homer seems to have liked the phrase "dark-tressed nymphs" or something similar. This phrase pops up often, like his "rosy-fingered dawn" or "wine-dark sea." If it was a reference to Ulysses returning home, I might have expected "dark-haired nymphs" instead of naked ones.

[Sean Manning]

This has to be one of only a few hand fulls of gravestones belinging to a primus pilus. Do any other centurion gravestones resemble this one?

A quick search on the epigraphic databank brings up 140 inscriptions to primipilares, and a more careful search would probably find more. But I've never seen another quite like this one!

That is the fun with epigraphy isn't it! For every hundred "DIS MANIBUS x by y to a BENE MERENTI z H M H N S" there is something like this, or the weird one where a husband praises his wife for working wool.

[Kegluneq]

or the weird one where a husband praises his wife for working wool.

What's weird about that? Spinning wool was a stereotypically female task in the Roman world, it would be like a husband now complimenting his wife by saying she was a good cook (and deservedly getting a slap if that were the best he could come up with).

Could seeing the nymphs be a metaphor for returning to your native country?

That sounds pretty good.

It could also be an injoke, which isn't terribly helpful...

[Vindex]

It could also be an injoke, which isn't terribly helpful...

Perhaps its his favourite team of female gladiators or a girl "band"? :whistle: (sorry; it's Friday afternoon!)

[Nathan Ross]

Just a quick thought - Porphry wrote an essay called On the Cave of the Nymphs, which is apparently about that passage of Homer that David mentioned, but also concerns the origins of Mithraism. Was there not also a mithraic grade called a nymphus?

Might the line about naked nymphs actually be a coded reference to the subject having passed through the initiation to the second grade of the Mithras cult? That would be an achievement to list beside the others, perhaps...

[Decimus Brutius Varus]

As a scholar of religion, it certainly sounds like a mystery cult, although nothing specific comes to mind historically.

[Kegluneq]

Might the line about naked nymphs actually be a coded reference to the subject having passed through the initiation to the second grade of the Mithras cult? That would be an achievement to list beside the others, perhaps...

As Mithraism was an all-male cult that certainly puts a different spin on things. I'm not sure one would boast of having seen fellow initiates naked (especially if they were of equivalent social status)...

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Sounds more like a Bacchanalia sort of thing! 8-)

[alekaras5811]

Salvete Omnes,

I tend to agree with Philus Estilius. It sounds just like what a veteran would say after a few drinks with his most trusted friends.

[PhilusEstilius]

Alexious

There was another one we used to have in my military days where one would say, pull up a sand bag swing that light and I will tell you a story about the war.

[Titus Manlius Verus]

I believe it safe to presume that most centurions were literate just to the point of fulfilling their duties.

It would be interesting to know precisely how a statement like that could be quantified! Looks to me like a nascent factoid ;-)

Mike Bishop

Just based on a reasonable theory-just like 70% of reenactment. :wink: