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At the start of all this discussion Barry it would appear that Paul even had the incorrect sword in mind, infact it was Tony Drake who had to make clear this point. What indeed I was trying to get across was that there are many out there who tend to give the impression that there is a Fulham type sword, and that there is a Mainz type sword when infact the Fulham is no more than a Mainz type. I would say there is no significance about the Fulham scabbard as such, read again and you will see that it is simply used to explain that there are straight scabbards and tapered ones and with explanation as to why.
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Quote:the only true difference about this one is it's scabbard which is straight sided.
Sorry Brian but having read this again I think it is pretty clear that you seem to be implying the Fulham sword is different because it has a straight sided scabbard? I merely pointed out that there are a number of examples of straight sided Mainz type scabbards.
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Quote:Save that the 'Fulham' isn't actually a type- it's a mainzensis sword for sure. It's virtually identical to the blade from Straßburg save for about 9mm of point length. :wink:
Do you have an illustration of the Strasburg?
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I do not think that I declare the Fulham as being unique because of it's scabbard for indeed I do go on to mention that the Porto Novo is of similar style. The whole point that I am trying to get across is that the Fulham is not a different type of "SWORD" from a "MAINZ" infact it's blade shape is that of a MAINZ. It comes from the point that some people out there are being confused in thinking the Fulham to be another type of sword apart from the Mainz. Then where I discuss Scabbards and their shapes I have simply taken the sword of Tiberius to show that this one tapers and that the Fulham is straight sided. I then go on to explain why the Fulham is straight because of it's decoration plates, like the very ones you yourself show Barry.
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Quote: The whole point that I am trying to get across is that the Fulham is not a different type of "SWORD" from a "MAINZ" infact it's blade shape is that of a MAINZ
On that we are agreed Brian!
Interesting that it seems to be only the embossed/repousse scabbards that have parallel sided scabards, perhaps suggesting that the plates were "mass produced" and you could simply select the "parts" you wanted for the scabbard?
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I think you make a very interesting point there Barry, for I am of the kind of opinion as to what came first the sword or the scabbard. I have in the past reproduced the Fulham sword 7 times, and infact the sword of Tiberius the same amount of times. What I do for the Fulham is I make the decoration plates first, for I aquired very good one to one photographs of these plates from the British Museum. Then of course everything is built around these, the main plate is around the size I've mentioned. I make these plates from 7 tho of an inch thick sheet by hand worked repouss'e as infact the originals were made, this is something I am absoloutely sure of for I have been doing this kind of work now for about 30 years. I think it takes some one who makes repouss'e to recognise it and determine how it is done, what I do think is there would have been artist craftsmen makeing these plates in quantity. Then of course they would have been passed on to the other part of a Fabrica where other people would have put the scabbard parts together. I find that in many pieces of Roman equipment there is strong evidence of this mass production system.
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Quote:... and infact the sword of Tiberius the same amount of times....
...I make these plates from 7 tho of an inch thick sheet by hand worked repouss'e as infact the originals were made,....
There's a very valid opinion out there that the Sword of Tiberius plates are stamped, not repousse. Next time you're at the BM take a very close look.
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I have also heard the opinion that the Fulham plates may have been initially stamped and then hand finished?
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That may be as you say Jim however there are all kinds of opinions on various things, indeed where we are discussing the sword of Tberius there are two differing views on this particular sword. There is the Martin Hennig of the Oxford university studies unit view that this sword comemmorates the victory of Tiberius over the Vindelisi in 15 BC, then there is the other view it could come from the post Varrian period of say 15 AD. I am of the later view having studied the decoration of the sword in particular the top plate and the Emperor medalion, for I do believe these two pieces of the decoration give us interesting clues.
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I think so. I remember so many exemples of a scabbard mouth depicting a prisoner. All are very close one to the other, so the use of an stamp is very probable. And stamps are sure used for make another military equipment, as the belt plates (wolf and twins, cornucopia, etc...)
Probably the stamp produces the part of the relief more marked, and the lower parts are hand enhanced. If you look a wolf and twins belt plate, the wolf and twins are smooth, but the rest of the plate are marked with little dots, for resalt the higher parts of the relief.
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Quote:Quote: The whole point that I am trying to get across is that the Fulham is not a different type of "SWORD" from a "MAINZ" infact it's blade shape is that of a MAINZ
On that we are agreed Brian!
Interesting that it seems to be only the embossed/repousse scabbards that have parallel sided scabards, perhaps suggesting that the plates were "mass produced" and you could simply select the "parts" you wanted for the scabbard?
Am I mistaken in thinking that mainz blades are waisted and that that the blade from Fulham has parallel sides and that was the reason they had been differentiated?
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There is a nice composite photo of the actual blades side by side on page 1 of this thread Conal.
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Quote:There is a nice composite photo of the actual blades side by side on page 1 of this thread Conal.
Seen it ... and as I have said it is always recontructed as a straight sided. If it was constructed that way then I'm not convinced that a straight sided blade can be seen as the same type as a waisted one.
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When I look at many things in Roman artwork I do find that with belt plates yes, these are stamped out for we find much duplication of various belt plates like the Lupical theme or the Emperor and Cornicopia. I do think however that with swords and daggers there does appear to be a certain degree of individualality. It is where one gets the opinion that not too long after a soldier joins the ranks he want's to make his own statement with style and pattern on his sword and dagger.
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Quote:Am I mistaken in thinking that mainz blades are waisted and that that the blade from Fulham has parallel sides and that was the reason they had been differentiated?
Being a bit picky here but I do not think you said anything about the reconstruction of the blades Conal? Could be wrong of course!
Anyway, looking at the photo of the actual blade I am not sure one could say it is entirely parallel sided?[/quote]
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