Calcei boot pattern?

[Theodosius the Great]

Oh, by the way, are these "over-flaps" accurate for Equestrian boots ? They fold over the top of each boot. But is this particular drawing based on anything ? From imperial statues, I've seen fur hanging in this manner but not leather.

[Dan Diffendale]

I've read about calceus patricius, calceus senatorius, and calceus equester. But who would've worn "calceus muliebris"

well, I'm certainly no expert on footwear, but going strictly by the Latin, I'd say that calcei muliebres would have been worn by women.

[Theodosius the Great]

:lol:

Oh, I thought these were purely military boots. So I guess civilians would've worn black or white (for women only ?)

We'll see what Martin says about this.

Thanks for the translation, Dan

[Martin Moser]

Hi,

yes, Dan is right, those were for women. Calcei could be worn by practically everybody it seems, children included. Of course they would have differed in make and price. Also there is always the problem to determine exactly what type(s) of shoe would be termed calceus. Ivan's shoes above e.g. would be carbatinae rather than calcei, as they are made of one piece of leather (it looks like at least). The Mainz finds are basically closed boots made of seperate upper, insole and outer sole, sometimes even featuring a frame. The pic below is from Göpfrich's book, cited above:

[Martin Moser]

So I guess civilians would've worn black or white (for women only ?)

It seems we know very little about the role of colors for shoes. The somewhat later shoes from Southfleet where dyed violet/purple and I read somewhere (can't recall now) that white, alumn tanned leather is very good for dyeing in other colors. Also there are gilded sandal uppers from London and Mainz, so this evidence could be interpreted that the more colorful stuff was worn by women ... (what's new ;-) ) )

As for men, the only colors mentioned that I know of are black and red. Undyed would always be a possibility as well.

[Graham Sumner]

Hi Jaime

Theodosius wrote:

Does anyone know what the literary sources say about the color of Equestrian Boots ? I can only find literature on Senatorial boot colors.

Would red, white, or a combination of red/ white or red/ black have been used ?

Reading through Goldman again I noticed that they do say that Equestrian boots were black. However there is no source given for that statement. I would tend to agree with Martin they were certainly plainer than Senatorial and Patrician boots and in all probability were either black or an undyed dark leather. The leather itself would also appear to be very soft for this style of boot. On statues you can see the shape of the toes through the leather.

Graham.

[Theodosius the Great]

Hey, someone makes a pair of officer boots here.


Price : 150 Euros

[tlclark]

Geez.

I think I could do that good.

The mainz Calcei doesn't seem to have a tongue, and yet these boots do.

Does anybody have a pattern for the senatorial boot?

On other issues.

A clarification on the equestrian boot.

The open-toed boot elaborate military boot with animal heads are commonly seen on loricata are referred to most often in the art history literature as "equestrian boots" but this is an entirely arbitrary term as far as I know. We know that there were equestrian boots from literary sources, but I have no idea why that term became attached to the shoes we see on loricata.

Travis

[Martin Moser]

Hi all,

I tried to do a little research on this subject over the last two weeks or so ...

About the "officer's boots" above: They seem immitate the calceus senatorius, which according to Goette (H.R Goette, Mulleus, Embas, Calceus: Ikonografische Studien Zu Römischem Schuhwerk', Jahrbuch des Deustchen Archaeologischen Instituts 103. 1988. pp.401-464) had only one knot with 2 strips of leather (corrigae) hanging down. Calcei patricii had two knots (with 4 strings hanging down), and the calceus equestris doesn't show any corrigae at all. It seems however, that the three types were not very strictly bound to the implied status, but rather worn by by all those ranks. Also, if you look closely at the Ara Pacis relifs, you can see the flamen depicted there wearing yet another, slightly diifferent type again, that is not closer described by Goette. The calcei found at Mainz do not really fall into any of the three sorts mentioned above, so my best guess would be that they were worn by people w/o any special rank implied.

Well, I hope to start making a calceus reproduction in one or two months time and will be able to gain more insights from that then ...

[tlclark]

Martin,

I managed to get some 4-5oz pigskin, already red in color, cheap. I think I am going to try some calcei senatorii as above.

I think I have the pattern worked out. the upper is in two parts, an instep that is one piece with tongue and second piece that wraps around the back of the heel.

Any suggestions.

Travis.

[Martin Moser]

Hi Travis,

The mainz Calcei doesn't seem to have a tongue, and yet these boots do.

Actually the Mainz calcei do have a tongue, though it is not clearly visible in most drawings.

I think I have the pattern worked out. the upper is in two parts, an instep that is one piece with tongue and second piece that wraps around the back of the heel.

As for the Mainz calcei there are the following facts as described by Jutta Goepfrich:

The upper is a one piece cutout, with the seam on the inside of the foot, below the ankle and a little forward. The seam is strengthened by an additional piece of leather on the inside (no specifics on this). The tongue is a seperate piece of leather. All four pieces have the upper made of sheep of goat leather, with the grain side facing _inwards_, i.e. the flesh side on the outside. Insole and lower sole leather is cattle. Stitch marks indicate that they were lined with leather or textile on the inside.

By the looks of them, the Mainz calcei are not senatorial or patrician calcei, however, so how much the above information is worth with regard to those is hard to determine, I think.

Looking at Roman shoes in general however, I think it is somewhat safe to say that the upper should be cut out in one piece, as that seems to have been the norm over many centuries, with the seam closing the upper being at the heel, on the inside, running upwards off center to the inside from the big toe or running upwards in the middle from the tip of the foot.

[tlclark]

Martin

Thanks for the info. Flesh side out? Really? So they would have had a suede appearance? Fascinating.

Looking at Roman shoes in general however, I think it is somewhat safe to say that the upper should be cut out in one piece, as that seems to have been the norm over many centuries, with the seam closing the upper being at the heel,

Ok, that makes sense. I seen lots of calcei made like this. they tend to either close on at the toe or at the heal.

this is I don't understand however.

on the inside, running upwards off center to the inside from the big toe or running upwards in the middle from the tip of the foot.

Huh? Please explain, and remember, I'm an art historian so talk slow.

Travis

[Peroni]

Salvete,

I have a pair of the Mainz calcei made by Sarah Juniper. Mine have a short tongue in them. They're incredibly warm and comfortable!




Regards,

[Martin Moser]

Flesh side out? Really? So they would have had a suede appearance?

Yes, indeed. I read it, re-read and then re-re-read it to make sure. It's also mentioned again in the relevant descriptions of the catalog part so it can't just be a one time slip.

this is I don't understand however.

>on the inside, running upwards off center to the inside from the big toe or running upwards in the middle from the tip of the foot.

Huh? Please explain, and remember, I'm an art historian so talk slow.

Ok, the description was maybe misleading. I put too much into one sentence. Here's a pic, not from a calceus, but it shows the very place where the seam is with a calceus, too. As far as calcei are concerned forget about the other seam locations mentioned (I was talking about other types of shoes there):

I have a pair of the Mainz calcei made by Sarah Juniper. Mine have a short tongue in them

Yes, I know those and they are probably the best you can get at the moment! As far as I can see, they have only minor mistakes, i.e. they look like they are not flesh side out, seem to have side seams on both sides (so being made from two pieces rather than one) and the lowest tab should be part of the shaft and not below and forward of the seams. Only minor stuff as I said - I know that Sarah Juniper does beautiful work!

[Peroni]

As far as I can see, they have only minor mistakes, i.e. they look like they are not flesh side out, seem to have side seams on both sides (so being made from two pieces rather than one) and the lowest tab should be part of the shaft and not below and forward of the seams.

Thank you Martin for the advice. Next pair that I order will be correct!

Although suede boots may not like the wet grass so much as well-oiled leather faced ones

Kind regards,