Forging the Blade, a New Novel About the Goths

[Flavivs Aetivs]

I can move it if you want.

Also, the claim that the Alans at Chalons couldn't be trusted is a common misconception. They were placed in the center for tactical/strategic reasons, as Alans were more effective against the Huns than Roman or Gothic Infantry.

Aetius' cavalry contingient heavily relied on those Alans, as they supplied both his roman units as well as being foederati themselves, with manpower.

[Michael Kerr]

Magister Militum Flavius Aetius wrote:

Also, the claim that the Alans at Chalons couldn't be trusted is a common misconception.

Hi, I am not sure if this thread was split but its true the Romans under Aetius would respect the military capabilities of the Alans, I sometimes wonder if the Visigoths trusted their leaders though and if they didn't I think Aetius would have bent over backwards to keep the alliance intact. However as their city Orleans was under threat I don't think the Alans would have changed sides. I remember reading but I can't remember where that in 414AD Visigoth king Athaulf was laying siege at a place called Bazas with a combined Visigoth and Alan army where Count Paulinus of Pella who was trapped in the town with his family knew the Alan leader who was not named and they devised a plan where the Alans changed sides and deployed their wagons around the city and the Visigoths suddenly weakened by the defection lifted the siege.Found the book "A History of Alans In The West"
by Bernard S Bachrach. I have no idea of how reliable a historian he is though.
Regards
Michael Kerr

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Well just like the Alans, the visigoths didn't truly have a defined leader. Goa and Sambida were both of the same rank. Anasolus, a Gothic warlord, attacked the city of Narbonne in 431, even though Theodoric was in truce with the Empire.

The Barbarians didnt have defined leaders until much later in the 5th century empire - about 440 or so.

[Michael Kerr]

True, I think the following year the Visigoths went through a series of leaders after the assasination of Athaulf till Theodoric I so there was some instability in their leadership but like I added to my previous thread I think the biggest motivation for the Alans to fight against Atilla was the fact that Orleans which was their city at the time was under threat.

Regards
Michael Kerr

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Well, the Alans were foederati - Aetius was an extremly skilled commander, and had given them land along the Loire and east of Auvergne. The Alans were more than foederati - they were run by the roman state, more professional than the usual barbarian recruits. They had been serving Aetius since the 430's it seems, and Thorismund had to take them out before he attacked Arelate. It's likely that Aurelianum was important to the Alans in that some of their members may be in the Roman governemnt there in Gaul, but its rather likely the majority of the Alans had already gone south to Arles to meet up with the Roman Army by the time Attila had attacked.

[Alanus]

Hello, Michael and Evan

After Athaulf's assasination by a relative (brother?) of Sarus, the king became Vallia, older and a Gothic moderate. He returned Placidia (who apparently loved Athaulf) to Ravenna, and he was the one who concluded the treaty that gave the Goths their Kingdom of Toulouse. He was followd by Theodoric, a younger man.

Yes, we should split this thread back to the first post just below my post with the illustrated cover, and add all of this to the Forging the Blade thread.

In the novel, I do mention a little bit of Wuson history, since their master swordsmith fashioned Tyrfing the Iron-Breaker. I also have an old Alanic sage-- Merjands-- who walks from Issyk Kul (and the kurgan of the Warrior Priestess) to Gothia. He's the most Arthurian character in the tale. And his name was actually a Gothic office, capitalized, "The Proclaimer." mile:

[Robert Vermaat]

Yes, we should split this thread back to the first post just below my post with the illustrated cover, and add all of this to the Forging the Blade thread.

Done as requested. ;-)

[Alanus]

Thanks.

The whole thing went off-topic... and off-topic AGAIN! :dizzy:

[Flavivs Aetivs]

I'll make a new thread called "Barbarian Political Organization" as that seems to be what we're discussing.

[Marja]

I think these issues may be specific to federate political organization. the Romans often tried to play federate leaders against each other.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

That's what I was referring to - federates, but I put Barbarian so we could discuss the wider scope of Barbarian Politics, Supertribes, Hunnic Empire, etc.

[Theodosius the Great]

The Alans were more than foederati - they were run by the roman state, more professional than the usual barbarian recruits.

IIRC, Gratian was supposedly unpopular with the army because he favored his Alanic auxiliaries over the regular troops.

~Theo

[Flavivs Aetivs]

I'm not saying Aetius favored the Barbarian recruits more (although he probably did, they were more agressive), in the end they all came out trained to be Roman soldiers, so the Alans would have been in the same units with Romans. They were additional manpower, not their own seperate units like foederati.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

I'm not saying Aetius favored the Barbarian recruits more (although he probably did, they were more agressive), in the end they all came out trained to be Roman soldiers, so the Alans would have been in the same units with Romans. They were additional manpower, not all would have been in their own seperate units like foederati (although most would have been seperate I'm sure).

[Theodosius the Great]

Oh, I agree. I was simply supporting your statement that the Alans were treated as part of the army. The emperor Gratian (d.383) had a bodyguard made up of Alans and gave them special priviledges which caused resentment among the other troops. So, I thought this episode showed a history of their integration into the army before the new "foederati" tribes appeared in the western empire.

~Theo