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cannibalism with the celts
#1
Hi

I've read several archaeological hints about cannibalism during the british iron age.

after some googling I've found this article and some others as well:

http://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2001/cannibal.html

Now, what I do wonder is, how widespread was this?

and second of all, is there proof that the mainland celts from gaul, spain or the germans did this as well?
Yves Goris
****
Quintus Aurelius Lepidus
Legio XI Claudia Pia Fidelis
Reburrus
Cohors VII Raetorum Equitata (subunit of Legio XI CPF)
vzw Legia
Flanders
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#2
Personally, I find this rather unsettling. We know cannibalism took place in early enolithic age Germany, but not wide-spread. This occurred before the so-called Indo-European influence, still during the period when everyone was supposedly peaceful, still worshiping the Mother Goddess. So much for that theory.

But this is something else, no famines or wide-spread diseases at this time. Many British Celts were apparently related to northern Gauls, even having the same tribal names. Those in the southwest, like the Silures, were related to the Iberians. But Roman historians have never mentioned cannibalism by the Britons, Celtiberians, or Gauls. I would be cautioned that this gory cave could have been the product of cultism and not a wide-spread practice. At least I hope so. Confusedad:
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
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#3
yeah that's what i thought too. weird thing the romans don't mention it... I find it highly unlikely that they would mention the human sacrifices but omit the cannibalism part.

although perhaps there are sources which do mention it which I don't know about just yet.
Yves Goris
****
Quintus Aurelius Lepidus
Legio XI Claudia Pia Fidelis
Reburrus
Cohors VII Raetorum Equitata (subunit of Legio XI CPF)
vzw Legia
Flanders
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#4
Hi, Yves

Know what your mean. I've read Herodotus, Caesar, Tacitus, Pliny, and Ammianus, and the only mention of cannibalism comes from Herodotus who mentions the Massagetae cut a small portion of the deceased flesh, mixed it with goat or beef, and ate a dinner in honor of the deceased person. Not exactly cannibalism, but still grisly enough.

These cave finds appear to be an oddity, as if through a short-lived cult. All the finds were dated to a very specific time, none earlier or later. I wish you the best in your research. :-)
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
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#5
In times of extreme privation cannibalism is relatively common, it occurred during the Thirty Years War in the early 1600s and most recently during the Siege of Lenningrad in WWII, when a reputed 200 people were arrested for acts of cannibalism.

The archaeology of the Iron Age in Britain, and elsewhere in Western Europe, does reveal a rather casual regard for human remains. We know that Celts operated a taboo system for certain food animals; British Celts, according to Caesar, were denied hare and goose flesh. In such a system a reverse taboo for eating human flesh, by certain people under certain ritual circumstances, is certainly possible. However,it is equally possible that long-bone marrow from human sacrificial victims may have been burnt on altars, like the fat of sacrificial beasts was by the Greeks and Romans.
Martin

Fac me cocleario vomere!
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#6
Well Caesar has some discussions in the description of one of his Gallic sieges (Alesia) but it was more or les as the Gauls say that they will be eating corpses than surrender than actually being a habit.

Caesar De Bello Gallico VII.77

What, then, is my counsel? To do what our forefathers did in the war, in no wise equal to this, with the Cimbri and the Teutones. They shut themselves into the towns, and under stress of a like scarcity sustained life on the bodies of those whose age showed them useless for war, and delivered not themselves to the enemy. And if we had not a precedent for this, I should still have judged it a most glorious thing for the sake of p495liberty to set such a one and to hand it down to posterity. For wherein was that war like this? The Cimbri devastated Gaul, they brought great disaster upon us, yet they departed at length from our borders and sought other countries, leaving us our rights, laws, lands, liberty. But the Romans — what else do they seek or desire than to follow where envy leads, to settle in the lands and states of men whose noble report and martial strength they have learnt, and to bind upon them a perpetual slavery? 'Tis in no other fashion they have waged wars. And if ye know not what is afoot among distant nations, look now on Gaul close at hand, which has been reduced to a province, with utter change of rights and laws, and crushed beneath the axes3 in everlasting slavery."

translation from this link:
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Ro...r/7G*.html
-----------------
Gelu I.
www.terradacica.ro
www.porolissumsalaj.ro
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#7
But, if you get such an invite, do you bring white wine because it tastes like chicken, or red because it is like steak tartare?
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
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#8
Do you start off with "finger" food? :unsure:
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
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#9
[attachment=12913]image_2015-10-17.jpeg[/attachment]


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
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#10
Cannibalism is sometimes blamed by classical authors onto Irish Celts:

"Besides some small islands round about Britain, there is also a large island, Ierne, which stretches parallel to Britain on the north, its breadth being greater than its length.Concerning this island I have nothing certain to tell, except that its inhabitants are more savage than the Britons, since they are man-eaters "
Strabo, Geography, IV, 5, 4

Furthermore, St. Jerome, speaking of the Attacotti, possibly an Irish or Caledonian tribe, wrote:

"Why should I speak of other nations when I myself, a youth on a visit to Gaul, heard that the Attacotti, a British tribe, eat human flesh, and that although they find herds of swine, and droves of large or small cattle in the woods, it is their custom to cut off the buttocks of the shepherds and the breasts of their women, and to regard them as the greatest delicacies?"

Jer. Adv. Jovin. 2.7.

However, this accounts are considered dubious by most historians
Gioal Canestrelli "Caturix"

- www.evropantiqva.org -
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#11
Quote:However,it is equally possible that long-bone marrow from human sacrificial victims may have been burnt on altars, like the fat of sacrificial beasts was by the Greeks and Romans.

cool! did not know marrow could be used like that.
Yves Goris
****
Quintus Aurelius Lepidus
Legio XI Claudia Pia Fidelis
Reburrus
Cohors VII Raetorum Equitata (subunit of Legio XI CPF)
vzw Legia
Flanders
Reply
#12
Human bone marrow is up to approx. 80% lipid. It should burn relatively easily. Bones and fat were burnt by the Greeks and Romans after a sacrifice, as the gods' portion. It is possible that human bone marrow could have been removed for ritual reasons, though it would yield a lot of nutrition due to its high fat content.
Martin

Fac me cocleario vomere!
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#13
(10-18-2015, 12:33 PM)Urselius Wrote: Human bone marrow is up to approx. 80% lipid. It should burn relatively easily. Bones and fat were burnt by the Greeks and Romans after a sacrifice, as the gods' portion. It is possible that human bone marrow could have been removed for ritual reasons, though it would yield a lot of nutrition due to its high fat content.

The article at the top of this thread mentioned possible ritualistic practice. That, as your post suggests, implies something very different than cannibalism. (They should have vetted their article with RAT.com Cool )

The Celts also displayed skulls in some cult centers, but displaying skulls then--as with Medieval skull and bone displays--in no way implies cannibalism.
"Fugit irreparabile tempus" (Irrecoverable time glides away) Virgil

Ron Andrea
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#14
(10-16-2015, 10:34 PM)richsc Wrote: But, if you get such an invite, do you bring white wine because it tastes like chicken, or red because it is like steak tartare?

     Considering that the slang for human meat among the South Sea Islanders is "Long Pig", referring to the similarity between it and Pork, I would sadly go with a dry white.
     And Fava Beans, of course.
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