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Roman troops in Thuringia ?
#1
.....News have popped up at german Magazin "Focus"
http://www.focus.de/regional/thueringen/...25928.html
...that traces of Roman troops in Thuringia have been spotted in Thuringia by the local archeological authorities.
No further informations seem to have been given except for a press-conference on tomorrows Friday.
Yes, and also no further Infos by the FOCUS about the exact place and time.
A quick search on the Website of the the "Thüringische Landesamt für Denkmalpflege und Archäologie" ,
so I've chosen to contact them via eMail. It's too late for posting the exact time now, anyway -- but maybe we can get a proper press-release.
I'm "at it now" -- so I'll be posting news on that subject as soon as I can grab them

Greez

Simplex

Whoever said there were NO Roman soldiers in Thuringia, -- ever ?!
Siggi K.
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#2
Thuringia as in 5th Century Thuringia?
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#3
....modern Thuringia.

Greez

Simplex
Siggi K.
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#4
Still, any date?
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#5
....they have not been very "talkative" yet -- one of the few informations given would translate as "in the first half of the first millenium" ...... that means from 0 to 500 AD.
O.K. I'll have to wait till the press-releases containing more (specific ?!) informations are beginning to "Pop up" or my request for a press-release will be answered -- or even both :woot:
For now :

Nighty-night


Simplex
Siggi K.
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#6
.... as promised:
Local TV "MDR" says here:
----
http://www.mdr.de/thueringen/nord-thueri...ch102.html
------
...they found traces of a Roman camp ( yes, pics included!) at Hachelbich/Northern Thuringia.
There have been few accompanying finds yet that could date that camp precisely.
First supicions, however go towards the Drusus campaign of 9 BC.
The camp is sited in the course of the modern road between Hachelbich and Goellingen
near river Wipper and surfaced in the course of preliminary surveillance in the course
of rebuilding County Road (L) 2290.
Trenches by the charasteric shape of a Roman fossa have bee spotted running both
in the east and the south for ca. 425 m. A continuation of those trenches in east and south
would yield about 18 ha of internal area.
Inside the area of surveillances also a System of baking ovens with 8 individual ovens,
a "working pit" and a gate have been found so far. The gate is of that "titulum type"
(Rem.: a "near comtemporary" parallel of which has been spotted at Haltern's "eastern camp").
Ist seems that the have not scrutinized the finds of Fittings and hobnails yet, whichare also mentioned
in that note from MDR. IIRC especially the Hobnails led to a secure and fast dating of the camps
at Hermeskeil and Limburg. Maybe the shapes of "Augustean" hobnails may not make that
too easy I would guess firsthand.

Hope the links works -- it did so with me.

Greez

Simplex
Siggi K.
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#7
...so Dr. Walter from the Thuringian archeological Authority TLDA responded VERY quickly.
I did a "quick'n'dirrty" Translation of the "offischal" press-release:
----Roman troops in Thuringia
It's after many years of search that we have finally suceeded in proving the presence of roman troops in Middle Germany.
....... a roman marching-camp located near the village of Hachelbich (Kyffhäuser County) and dated to the first till the third century AD has been identified beyond doubt by the TDLA. (Thurigian Country Office for the preservation of Monuments).
It started off with excavations en suite a routine measure of preliminary surveillance before rebuilding a road.
Geophysical and Aerial Prospection of the area supplemented by surveillance by foot were employed for further research.
The installation (found) as it has been researched by now strictly follows suit to the schematics according to ancient literature as well as archeological finding from the provinces and frontarlier regions of the Roman Empire: A trench (i.e. fossa fastigata) on the southside has been detected running about 425m long.
After a rounded bend a piece of trench of nearly identical length is following up.
In the northeast geophysical prospection has yielded an entrance with a piece of trench in front of it . (Titulum)
Eight bread-ovens with a working pit add up to the structures already identified.
In case the installation should go on like that towards North and West , this should make for a irregular rectangle with an enclosed space of around 18 ha.
Among the not especially numerous finds from this place there are a couple of fittings from non-ferrous metals and four hobnails.
The low number of indicators up to now allow only a "wide" dating perspective from the first to the third century AD, thus not permitting the attributing it to certain campaigns known from ancient literature.
Marching camps of this kind were used to house troops in campaigns only for one to only a couple of nights.
They were constructed in just a couple of hours.
Movement of troops in ancinet times followed routes well-known, which can be reconstructed here for the first time more detailed.
In northern Thuringia the valley of river wipper between Hainleite and Windlaite forms a natural narrow "corridor" with an ancient long-distance route running over the Eichsfeld westward towards the valley of river Werra or river Weser. (Remark: => Hedemünden !!) Routes eastward run south of the Kyffhäuser mountains to the Thuringian Basin, the middle part of the valley of river Saale and the eastern Harz promontories.
The excavations and scientifical researchas planned for this year and the following years most likely will add up finds, lead to more precise dating and will be more indicating towards the appearnace of the installation.
Contact: Dr. Mario Küßner Phone: Germany (0)3643/818346; eMail: [email protected]
.-----
Howzit ?? Finders weepers -- loosers keepers ?? :whistle:

Greez

Simplex

Mo' pics:
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/thueri...14376.html
Siggi K.
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#8
Awesome!
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#9
Roms Legionen führten auch in Thüringen Krieg:

- a number of finds and the lay-out of the camp indicate a Roman provenance
- the camp is probably a night camp, not a permanent camp
- it is provisionally dated to the 1st-3rd century AD
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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#10
I did a little detective work and I easily found the location of this dig on Google Earth. As I expected, you can see the unearthed ruins from the air fairly well in the Google Earth image dated from 2007 -- especially the Western wall and the NW corner of the encampment. I'll be discreet here since I've read several mentions of trying to keep this site free of souvenir hunters, which I would support. But suffice to say it won't take you long to find it if you want to.

Also, regarding the post from Eleatic Guest below, just curious: Would the Romans have built bread ovens for a night camp? And does "night camp" suggest just one night - or is it a permanent camp for multiple night visits?

Thanks! Love this site!

Dave
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#11
Even if it were just a "night camp," that doesn't necessarily it was only used for one night, I don't think. I think a better term would be temporary. So whoever built the camp may have used it for some little time, but not long enough to start any permanent construction. IIRC, this camp is the farthest from the Roman limes found yet; it seems to me that if this were the last stop (so to speak) on a campaign before returning then the Romans might have stayed here for a month or two, mopping up or accepting submissions from tribal leaders, etc. So not permanent, clearly, but possibly used for longer than a normal marching camp.
Nate Hanawalt

"Bonum commune communitatis"
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#12
According to this:
http://artern.thueringer-allgemeine.de/w...1915035756
...excavations will commence again by September ( after the harvest) and plans have already been made for excavations next year.
As yet there are not sufficient finds and findings for an Exhibition.

Greez

Simplex
Siggi K.
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#13
Slight Update:
"Open Day" at the camp/ Local Lecture
Führung über das Gelände/Guided Tours
Termin: Donnerstag, 04. September 2014, 18.00 Uhr/Thursday Sept. 4th 2014, 6 pm
Treffpunkt/meeting Point:
Kreuzung der Verbindungsstraße (L2290) Hachelbich-Göllingen mit dem Wirtschaftsweg Hachelbich– Wetthau/Heidelberg
Crossing of junction road L2290 Hachelbich-Göllingen and the utility way Hachelbich-- Wetthau/Heidelberg
Referenten: Dr. Mario Küßner / Dr. Tim Schüler, Landesamt für Denkmal-pflege und Archäologie, Weimar

Vortrag zur Grabung in Hachelbich/Lecture on the Hachelbich excavation
Termin: Donnerstag, 04. September 2014, 19.30 Uhr/Thursday , Sept. 4th 2014, 7:30 pm
Ort: Bürgerhaus Hachelbich (Kyffhäuserkreis)/Community House Hachelbich
Referenten: Dr. Mario Küßner / Dr. Tim Schüler, Landesamt für Denkmal-pflege und Archäologie, Weimar
There you have it

Greez

Siggi
Siggi K.
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#14
Slight update (albeit as per Feb. 2016):
http://sondershausen.thueringer-allgemei...2002369902
-Excavations in 2016
-Trying to spot the northern and western boundaries of the camp
-Size presumed : More than 23ha as yet, most likely up to 40ha.
-Since there are no news there seems s to be still not a lot of smallfinds, therefore no dating possible as yet.
Lets hope for the 2016 campaign to turn out datable finds.

Greez

Simplex
Siggi K.
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#15
Update as per 28th of May 2018:
https://www.welt.de/geschichte/article17...ingen.html

They say it's NOT Augustean but rather a marching camp from Maximinus Thrax' expedition, dated by arrow-point an other small parts like Hobnails.
(….. rather the complette and utter absence of augustean-era parts……)
Forgive them their unfitting depiction of a "typical" Roman legionary.
The course of movement rather suggesting actions against Germanics between (around) Hildesheim and (around) Magdeburg

That's it for now

BTW: This also should shed a bit of light on how "later" marching-camps looked.
Siggi K.
Reply


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