Pannonian cap

[L C Cinna]

Hi there!

I have a some brief questions>

The caps worn by some reenactors are called Pannonian if I got that correctly. Were they only worn by late Romans or did the troops in the 1st and 2nd century wear them as well? were there other kinds of caps or hats used by the army in winter? what are those caps made of and are there any suppliers?

thank you very much in advance
michael

[Robert Vermaat]

We're not sure. They certainly appear only in art during the 3rd century and after, but Vegetius claims that 'in the past' soldiers always wore them, too. Since they aren't represented in art before the Late Roman period, we can't be sure how long ago Vegetius was writing about.
Read Graham Sumner's Roman Military Clothing (2).

[sseverus]

So Robert,
if I want to reenact a 3th century soldier, I could wear it?
Nico

[Carlton Bach]

Certainly from the mid-3rd century onwards.

[Robert Vermaat]

Indeed.

[Graham Sumner]

L.C. Cinna Wrote:

The caps worn by some reenactors are called Pannonian if I got that correctly. Were they only worn by late Romans or did the troops in the 1st and 2nd century wear them as well? were there other kinds of caps or hats used by the army in winter?

Vegetius calls the hats Pannonian and that they were made from leather.(Epit., 1.20)' The correct term for these hats however would appear to be Pillei and they may have been introduced into the Roman Empire via Persia evolving from the elaborate Persian Tiara. Indeed the hats worn by the Tetrarchs in the statue in St Marks Venice have slots in them, perhaps for fitting jewels.

Other sculptures show this style of hat with a rough textured surface presumably sheepskin with the wool left on as mentioned in the Price Edict of Diocletian.

Hats would not just be worn to keep out the cold. The Emperor Carinus supposedly wore a hat to hide his baldness (De Regno, 12 OP., m66, 1804) while some surviving examples of hats have come from Egypt. At least one more hat has recently been found at Mons Claudianus and it might be worthwhile looking out for some of the latest reports from there.

A few hats from Egypt are helmet shaped, others have bands of coloured decoration and tufts of wool on top. Another could be a type of hat called the Petasus. It is round in shape with a brim. These hats look quite spectacular but there is no evidence to confirm that they were worn by soldiers.

Plautus describes a sailors dress in 'Miles Gloriosus' (1176) as including a broad brimmed hat which might be of Petasus type but could also refer to the straw hats seen in many mosaics especially worn by fishermen. Again nothing specifically military.

Robert is quite correct in stating that in a military context the 'Pannonian' hat does not appear to have been used by the Romans before the 3rd century, perhaps later in the century rather than earlier. However the late 2nd century column of Marcus Aurelius shows auxiliaries wearing Phyrgian hats. You could wear one of those but you do run the risk of looking like a garden gnome!

There are two other ancient references apparently to hats in relation to the military. one is the well known account of Ammianus Marcellinus (xix,8.8) using a hat from inside his helmet to collect water and a poem by the first century author Petronius who makes a joke about a dove nesting in a soldiers bonnet. Both accounts appear to have been mistranslated and in the light of recent discussion the helmet lining in the first case and a helmet in the second would make better reading.

Graham.

[FAVENTIANVS]

Any refference about woven woolen pillei instead of leather?

[aitor iriarte]

Graham, just two commentaries on the pilleus pannonicus:
The slots on the Venice Tetrarchs are mediaeval and intended for the crane that had to lift them from Constantinople to the ship and then to Venice.
Certainly, the passage by Ammianus is mistranslated. What the man was wearing inside his helmet was simply a 'cento' (cloth rag),probably, some kind of homemade padding...

Aitor

[Graham Sumner]

Aitor Wrote:

The slots on the Venice Tetrarchs are mediaeval and intended for the crane that had to lift them from Constantinople to the ship and then to Venice.

Hello Aitor
Where did you find that interesting piece of information? I am rather glad in a way as it would not be to my taste to stick jewels on the front but I suppose my friend Raffaele would rather the whole hat be covered in jewels and gems. I think it is about time you and Robert posted some pics of yourselves and your troops in their hats on this thread!

Graham.

[aitor iriarte]

Hello Graham,
Just from personal observation. I've spent several hours in front of those statues. Everybody has seen pics of the Tetrarchs but very few people has observed them in detail...
In origin, each pair was standing on a huge porphyry column, on a console. When Venetians sacked Constantinople, they crudely sawed off the statues in three fragments for ease of transport.
There are several jewelled items portraited on the Tetrarchs: Belts, swords and shoes. None of them had insets, the jewels are simply represented in bulk.
The square holes in the pillei are roughly carved and, if you look at my pic, you'll see one additional hole at the back of the second man's pilleus, for the second 'finger' of the crane's pincer. Moreover, you'll notice that the pilleus of the fourth emperor broke during transport, due to the pressure, just at that point!

Aitor

[FAVENTIANVS]

http://personales.ya.com/ad932102038/ge ... get14.html

[DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS]

[size=150:m1sx1bir]S[/size]o, what would be a good cap for a 1st Century soldier to wear? They wouldn't wear a helmet all the time... so what would they do?
Thanks...

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

You can go barehead :lol:

Ermine Street guard and many groups shows straw or felt hats like the greek petasus.

[Robert Vermaat]

I think it is about time you and Robert posted some pics of yourselves and your troops in their hats on this thread!

Sure, here's Chariovalda:

[Robert Vermaat]

That's me

Pius of the Herculiani

Germans from Dun Gwalch