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Quote:Archaological evidence in some late Roman baths outside Thessaloniki seem to add weight to your arguments. But metal boilers are not 100 % sure.
But your point is interesting.
Kind regards
There's no doubt that there were metal boilers. Both Fikret Yegul's book and Nielsens "Thermae et balnea" have numerous examples. The only question is did anyone ever apply the term "klivanos" to them.
Klivanos is not listed in the Liddle and Scott so that means it's a later term.
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Klivanos in early archaic attik dialect is KRIVANOS.
I think it si mention in Aristofanis.
Liddle and Scott is the best place to start but it does not contain everything.
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Quote:Klivanos in early archaic attik dialect is KRIVANOS.
I think it si mention in Aristofanis.
Liddle and Scott is the best place to start but it does not contain everything.
Kind regards
Thanks for the tip!
Yeah, L&S is notoriously bad on Middle Greek or adopted foreign words.
I looked up the latin bath terms in the Langenscheidt, and I dont' think there is a term that distinguishes the actual furnace from the boiler in the latin. They seem to use Forno for both the actual furnace and the boiler. If so, it would be possible that the term in Greek was applied to both as well, but I can find no evidence that krivanos was ever applied to a bath furnace.
Found Krivanos in the L&S. First listing was ... you guessed it...clibinarios...heavy armored cavalryman. Second listings include clay cooking pots, potter's kilns and various other cooking and firing kilns and furnaces. No mention of any kind of bath related function.
I have access to the TLG, I will look up both terms and see what pops up. If it occurs in the context of a loutros or gymnasium I bet we can say with some confidence that Krivanos was used to describe bath furnaces and hence boilers likely made up of bronze plate. If not, then I wouldn't further this speculation of mine any further.
Thanks.
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Guys, we are a bit off track here - the original discussion was about clibanarii at Adrianople. A new thread, perhaps?
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hehe what was the question again? :roll:
Anyway to give an answer to the question I think there were Cataphracts or heavily armoured horses present. I mean if the East Roman army in the battle at Hadrianopolis was an imperial army then I really can't believe that the cataphractarii/clibanarii are left out as they were one of the most expensive units close to the emperor himself. Unfortunatly I can't support my answer with a specific source but I dont think this is completely nonsense.
Thijs Koelewijn
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What ever the admin thinks best.
But what it came from all this is that we are uncertain what type of heavy horse Valens had with him. In the comfusioon of war it is not unlikely that a "heavy" unit had picked up "extra heavy" elemnt on the way but I think they were not enought ot do any difference.
So my opinion is that there was "heavy" roman cavalry in battle but not "extra heavy" (aka catafracts.)
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P. S. I feel our comment on armor could go in an older thread bout catafracts but I do not remeber where it was.