Dutch Manhattan

[Marcus Mummius]

My Parents used to do the Father Christmas shoething too, its not that common but my families ancestors are from Germany and near the dutch border in Holland so that is probably why.

Yes, but 'Sinterklaas' has nothing to do with father christmas :wink:

I think that's exaggerated, see this part of my article.

Yes, I should have been more clear :oops: I mean these days most people do not make any connection between the two figures. From a historical point of view they aren't totaly unrelated.

These days it's all about consumption. If people dared they'd make a seperate day for 'Zwarte Piet' and one for 'Sinterklaas' just to sell more presents

[Jona Lendering]

If people dared they'd make a seperate day for 'Zwarte Piet' and one for 'Sinterklaas' just to sell more presents

My personal idea to get rich is: sponsoring of town names. It is ridiculous that people are attached to those old names. Why not rename them, and offer large corporations an opportunity to show their responsibility for society, and pay a city?

For example, I am sure that Sony will sponsor New York, if only those New Yorkers would be willing to drop that ridiculous outmoded name of theirs and start calling themselves Sony City. London becomes BMWpolis, Rome becomes Castello di Microsoft, and Vodaphone is the new name of Athens. An entire field of product placement has been left unexploited, and is there for me. Believe me, I will become a rich man.

Somehow, though, I have an unpleasant feeling that what is now an evil fantasy, is only waiting for some smart ass to be done for real. And somehow, I can imagine that people will really sell their names. Yuck.

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

the Sinterklaas-tradition is also very much alive in Belgium and France.

also in France? i thought they had somebody else - can't remember her name right now

[Jona Lendering]

In northern France they celebrate Saint Nicholas, and Black Peter is changed into a red-bearded forest man.

Perhaps the female heroine you think of is the Italian Befana, whose arrival is celebrated on the 6th of January?

[Robert Vermaat]

There is a Dutch guy knocking on doors to get some commemoration going for the Dutch being the first Europeans to colonise manhattan. But the doors seem to remain firmly shut - no-one in NY is interested in their past, government agencies don't want to be reminded of anything pre-USA and developers seem more interested in selling homes then allowing for heritage.. Apparently the area of interest is now fenced-off by the residents.

[Aetius Helvius Merula]

^Yeah, here in the States a lot of people don't know the Dutch were there before the English, for at least a century if memory serves correctly.

I always thought the Santa Claus legend to be derived directly from Saint Nicholas, and from him earlier traditions. When I was a kid, we learned the version where he flies through the sky in a sleigh pulled by reindeer, jumping down chimneys and dropping off presents for the good children. But he leaves coal for the bad ones. We were supposed to leave a plate of milk and cookies for him when he came by.

I remember how I'd always stay up and try to catch him, then doze off. When I woke up a few minutes later, he'd already been there and grabbed the plate! We also sang a lot of hymns about him. It seems like today, the whole cycle is increasingly a cheap gimmick in malls. That's a pity, because without fairy tales and legends, how's a lad to use his imagination?