weapons and armour of the greek marine

[geala]

As early as in the 1st Punic War the ratio of trieres compared to tetreres or penteres was rather low, the triere was not longer that useful against the heavier vessels. For the 2nd c. AD I would have guessed for liburnae as the main vessels; these would have been not much bigger than trieres however. Or came the trieres back into use when the scale of the warships declined after the hellenistic time?

[Praefectusclassis]

Triremes are actually the most numerous vessels mentioned on early imperial tombstones, then liburnae (smaller!), a few dozen quadriremes, a handful of quinqueremes and a single hexere.
Structurally the imperial trireme was probably somewhat heavier (wider on the waterline), but there's no evidence to assume the size of the crew and such changed very much.

[geala]

This is interesting. The reintroduction of the triere/trireme is understandable. No great maritime enemy left for the Romans and middle scaled and small ships could do the necessary tasks presumably cheaper and better than big penteres/quinqueremes.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

If marines were fully armed in roman times,in a ship with the same dimentions and the same usage as the classical trireme,I don't see why classical marines should be thought as lighter armed.And especially as Pollux,speaking about ancient armies describes them with cuirass,greaves,helmet and everything.Except for the general tendency to lighter armor in the end of the fifth century,is there anything else to suggest Athenian marines were lighter armed?
Khairete
Giannis

[hoplite14gr]

Dory also means wood shaft. It meant that initially.
So dorydrepano might well meant sicle on long stave-at least to the ancients.
Marines could very well be heavily armed because on board, the battle stops when the last enemy is dead captured or thrown overboard.
Most savage combat takes place in confined spaces and ancient naval fighters were desperate men.

Kind regards

[M. Demetrius]

Giannis, looks like you should have tied a ribbon on your avatar's--uh--source. Somebody got irritated, it seems. OTOH, that's a unique avatar you have now!

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Giannis, looks like you should have tied a ribbon on your avatar's--uh--source. Somebody got irritated, it seems. OTOH, that's a unique avatar you have now!

Right,I see...not all of us are used to nudity,even when concerning ancient art.We should put leaves in all ancient sculptures and vases.Meanwhile,I changed some minor details in my avatar so nobody is irritated :evil:
Khaire
Giannis

[M. Demetrius]

No, no! Now you have the grape leaf upside down! AAAAARRGGGHHH!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

OK,since my avatar is accepted within the members of RAT,I returned it in its original status :lol:

[geala]

Yes? I can see a white surface with a red St. Andrew's cross in it? Is this your new avatar? :wink:

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Damn,I was able to see it,no matter it was deleted from photobucket!is it visible now?

[geala]

Yes, it is.

[Sean Manning]

Two quibbles with that earlier thread on Greek marines: I know of no evidence that fifth-century triremes had substantial gunnels, so if marines wore no greaves it wasn’t because the ship could protect their legs, and Scythians could well have serves as marines even if they were probably not the mainstay. Nomad archers tend to be skilled at shooting from a kneeling position on the ground, and the Persian fleet of 480 BCE used Parsa, Mada, and Saka marines (Hdt. 7.96) to supliment their seagoing peoples.

[conon394]

jumping back to the dorydrepanon and Plato.

I’m not sure Plato is really a solid or reliable source for the effectiveness of the sickle-spear. As far as I know Plato never did much if any service aboard ship and he more of less dreamed of a world without the navy. A similar weapon proved effective for Caesar in against the ships of the Gauls.

and Scythians could well have serves as marines even if they were probably not the mainstay. Nomad archers tend to be skilled at shooting from a kneeling position on the ground

I would argue that is no particular reason to assume the archers were not citizens in most of the polis that maintained substantial navies (Athens, Rhodes (Hellenistic), Aegina, Samos, etc).

and the Persian fleet of 480 BCE used Parsa, Mada, and Saka marines (Hdt. 7.96) to supliment their seagoing peoples.

Herodotus also notes that problematically for them, they tended to be unable to swim compared to the Greeks (or Phoenicians) who could. If the Greeks were using similar nomad archer marines I would think Herodotus’s statement (at Salamis) would have covered both sides.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

I also think that most archers on board would have been citizens,but your argument is not valid for Salamis. At that early age even the Athenian navy would not be so well equiped as 50 years later.It is true that the tyrants had used Skythian mercenaries to serve as police men in the city of Athens befor, but I don't have references of their use in the navy. And I don't think Skythians ever fought against Persians in the Persian wars. During the Peloponnesian war,it's another story.
Khaire
Giannis