Muscled thorax fastenings

[Chris B]

Thanks. Those breaks in the rows are driving me crazy though! :evil: I am too much of an O/C, perfectionist to my own detriment sometimes. All the women I work with are telling me more rows won't change things so I may just start the cuirass tonight and come back to the flaps in a couple weeks or wear a black chiton.

I personally chose black because my Roman leatherwork is all brown and tan tones, my 9th century viking set has dark brown leatherwork, and the Templar set's head to toe riveted chainmail doesn't leave much showing. I wanted some variety on the armour stands if you know what I mean.

[Chris B]

Next Update: You shouldn't have asked if you really didn't want update pics....

I cut out the front and back plates and they came out perfect. I can't believe I have been this nervous about cutting them out. I used a 34 tpi blade on a plain old jig saw and it cut very easily. Now I am nervous about getting a consisitent bend on the edges without leaving a lot of tooling marks. Any advice?????

[Chris B]

I don't see anything for a clip or link? Thanks in advance for the help though.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

That was pretty amazing to watch, great clips Gioi!

[Chris B]

Thanks. That breastplate was really cool to watch too.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Hi.
For the pteryges to cover all the circumference there is one key. Each pteryga should overlap the next,much like the plates usually overlap. This is what we see in this kind of pteryges not only in muscled cuirasses of the late 4th and later centuries, but in late linothorakes,too. Chris I think your pteryges do not overlap this way? This is not necessarilly wrong though. Eagerly waiting to see the muscles...!
Good luck.
Khaire
Giannis

[Chris B]

They do overlap, but apparently not enough.

I rolled the edges over on themselves for the cuirass today. I started to shape the front plate and am seeing this will definately take a lot of time, patience, and small adjustments at a time.

I am curious about one thing though for those who have made one or know the answer. Do you shape the muscles first or get the bell cuirass shape and then shape the muscles. The hardest part I am finding is getting the correct curve around the pectorals since the metal had to bend in two directions (over the shoulder and around the abdomen (not the muscles, just the bend to the armour).

[Matthew Amt]

Shape the plate to your body first, THEN do the sculpting. And then you'll have to adjust the fit again! If you do the muscling first, there's practically no way you'll be able to shape the plates to fit you.

I'd probably round the edges of a rubber mallet and use that to dish, lightly, with the metal resting on a sandbag. And I always do the rolled edges last, since it's much easier to bend the metal beforehand, and you don't know what you might need to trim... For anything that just needs to be bent, rest the metal on a curved surface like a smooth log, to avoid any kinks.

We did mention the Armour Archive tutorials somewhere in this thread, right? Can't remember.

OH! What kind of bronze is that, and where did you get it, if I might ask?

Good luck!

Matthew

[Chris B]

Thanks. It's too late now for the edges. I guess I got that order wrong. I think it will fit right though since the form fits perfectly. I also made the subarmour from the form and have worn it tight to the body so I can see the way it follows my body.

On a side note, I am not rolling the edges where the hinges go so I can still trim from those edges. We shall see. Hopefully it wasn't a huge mistake.

I do not know the exact composition of the bronze sheet I bought, but it can be found here. It is under raw materials and metals. It is relatively easy to work with, but it feels a bit harder than 16 gauge brass I have used in the past for other projects.

http://www.mcmaster.com/

Here are the update pics for Sunday. I have started to curve the front and back plates. I have dished the back plate generally, formed the upper back muscles roughly, and turned up the collar. I have also posted a pic of the beginning work for the front plate. I will probably not post many pics from here out on the back because it will be finishing work, fine adjustments, and polishing. I hope to have the back plate finished in a couple weeks and then I will post another update. Thanks for everyone's help.

[Pericles of Rhodes]

Looks great so far Chris! Well done! There’s some nice shapes being formed. What are you using as an anvil? Or do you have one?

I look forward to seeing more developments!

Good luck!

[Chris B]

I am using a railroad rail roughly 2 feet in length with cardboard taped over the rail to keep the armour from scratching. The cardboard is working like a charm and cheap to replace when it gets torn up.

I have another question. How much loss of motion is expected from the cuirass? I can still get to my sword and move my arms on their respective sides, but I cannot reach across my body well. I can also not point straight up.

I understand that later chest plates where more articulated in the middle ages and that they allowed for better movement. I have experimented with the patterns I used and NO amount of shaving allows full range of motion since I can cross my arm to the center of my chest and any metal there would stop its motion. I also see that even a little metal on the shoulder blades stops full range up as well.

It seems to be a trade off between motion and protection/coverage. Is it simply a personal choice? What are any of your ecperiences with cuirasses for those of you who use them?

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

I can speak only about my linothorax. I also cant raise my arm straight upwards. To reach something much higher than me with the right hond I have to bend my body abit to the left. But linothoraxes had wider shoulder protection than metal cuirasses. Otherwise,I have good motion for the other movements,at least enough to fight ptoperly. I have no experience with metal thorakes. What i have noticed in some muscled cuirasses is that they are relatively narrow in the chest,allowing tha arms to move forward.
Khaire
Giannis

[Chris B]

Bad news. I am calling this attempt a complete failure. The two plates do not meet correctly over the shoulders. I was afraid of that from the beginning because a cardboard or paper mockup doesn't bend in three dimensions like metal. Unless I can figure out how to make my next attempt correct this problem, I may not try again.

I am taking the clean portions of metal out of the cuirass and attempting greeves to hopefully salvage something from this. I may attempt it again this month IF I can compensate for the shoulder problem after I complete the greeves. Thanks for the encouragement and support none-the-less.

Edit: I ordered one more 4' X 2' sheet of bronze and am only willing to attempt this one more time. After that, I might as well get a custom one made. I am planning on doing the back plate first completely to finish except the polishing work and folding the edges over on themselves, and then I will make a new template for the front leaving excess to absolutely make sure it meets up right this time. I really hope I didn't just waste more money. :roll: At least I have enough in the plates to salvage for greeves. The metal will be here before the weekend. Wish me luck, and I am accepting prayers at this point! :lol:

[Zenodoros]

The thorax looks beautiful so far and as Gioi stated, there is no need to give up. Good luck!

[Chris B]

I am not giving up guys. I am starting over. I ordered the metal last night for one more attempt. I think I know how to fix it perfectly this time. I am going to work in this order:

1) Cut out back plate. Fold over edge on bottom edge only.
2) Shape back plate fixing a few minor things I learned on my first attempt.
3) Dish the back muscles on the back plate.
4) Place hinges on the sides only for the back plate.
5) Make minor changes to front pattern to meet up perfectly with now dished back plate.
6) Cut out front plate leaving a LOT of extra material on the neck and shoulder areas. Turn over edge on bottom edge only.
7) Dish general shape of front plate to body and then hinge the side plates together with the back.
8) Slowly bring the front plates shoulders together with the back plate and mark where they meet when folded properly. (So apparently the 8 followed by a ) makes a cool smiley. Completely unintentional.)
9) Partially flatten the shoulder area on front plate and cut out/shave off extra material to get correct neck and shoulder curveature where it meets up perfectly to back.
10) Dish muscles in front plate.
11) Turn edges over themselves for shoulder and neck areas.
12) Turn up collar.
13) Hinge shoulder area.
14) Perform finishing work with hammers.
15) Use grinder to buff and polish outside surface.
16) Cover inside with leather.

I probably could salvage the back plate, but why, when I can make a few minor adjustments to the new plate prior to adding muscle and get it perfectly the way I would like it to be.

I came to the realization that the front plate was doomed from the moment I cut it out though. It meets up perfectly on the form, but then when it curves to the body's contour, the shoulder plates are too far to the inside and cross the shoulders at the wrong angle. They hit the back plate at approximately a 30 degree angle.

The only mistake I made on the back plate was that I was so busy forming it to my body that I did not realize I started the curve over the back of the shoulder too soon so that it overlapped too far. Basically, if you lay the plate down, the side edges and shoulder edges should hit the ground so that they are both smoothly resting on the ground flush. The shoulders were too far forward which rocks the plate upward at an angle to the ground. I could have shaved off some of it, but I would rather hit it right on the next piece of metal to keep the lines cleaner.

The metal shipped this morning so I should be back in the shop Saturday working again. Just a week delay. Not the end of the world even though I feel like I just lost a battle. hock: