12-14-2009, 01:55 PM
Hello, I am a neophyte at this site, and I have just finished reading about four pages of really good discourse and reparte'!
I hope I am not opening another can of worms for any of you but (unless I missed it) it seems that one element of Phocean, Phokian, Phocian (Focian?) defense measures was not really mentioned or discussed. And, it seems that "rock throwers" was a part of it although one source might well have translated "rock" as missle?
[url:2ivdvcbk]http://www.livius.org/th/thermopylae/thermopylae4.html%20Ca.%20470%20BCE[/url]
"The early fifth century history of Central Greece is poorly understood, but it is certain that the Thessalians and Phocians were at war "a few years before the Persian invasion" (Herodotus, Histories, 8.27). During this war, the "Phocian Wall" was built at Thermopylae: about 150 meters long, parallel along the road, and offering the Phocians a safe place from which to throw missiles at the invaders."
I hope you noticed that the "Phocian Wall", was not (it seems) built to serve as a block to the road, but as a protected place whereby they could assail the enemy from behind protection, and was, it seems only located on one side of the road! The road itself remained free of obstructions! It seems to me that a defensive work of this type which was (it seems) only 150 metres long could only contain about 300 defenders, or in this case offensive personnel, since it was designed to only "throw missiles at the invaders!" This would mean two missile throwers per metre! I would also ask, just what were the "missiles" that were thrown?
Did the 300 throw rocks?, or did they sling stones?, or did they throw darts (if darts, just what were darts?), etc. It seems that it would be fairly easy to defeat such a defense if they only had rocks, darts, stones, spears, etc. to throw at the attackers who would be in a very narrow defile! The invaders would only have to place protection upon one side of their column and would thus be able to repel attacks of this kind! Mere wooden panels, held alongside of wagons and men and animals would thus receive a lot of protection from such an attack! Is my logic flawed at this point? And just how many missiles were available to be thrown? It seems a determined attacker with enough troops could quickly deplete the missile stores what ever they were if they were only stones, darts, rocks, and spears, etc.!
Just what kind of "missile" could have been used to prevent entry via the road?
The article continues;
"However, the Malians (allies of the Thessalians), discovered the Anopaea path and Thermopylae fell for the first time (Herodotus, Histories, 7.215). The invaders, however, were defeated at Hyampolis and the Phocians were able to free themselves."
The above account is informative in that it mentions that the Phocians reportedly defeated the Malian invaders in a later battle at Hyampolis and recovered their independence. This seems strangely similar to the events after the Spartan Greek stand at Thermopylae?
More about the above can be found here;
[url:2ivdvcbk]http://www.lightfigures.com/numismat/larissa/show.php?page=13[/url]
Oh, as mention of certain historical personages being killed by rocks (millstones?) or tiles, etc., I contend that history is rife with such mentions, certainly one Biblical reference can be remembered, but a good Google Search will uncover many more possibilites!
My regards,
Ron
I hope I am not opening another can of worms for any of you but (unless I missed it) it seems that one element of Phocean, Phokian, Phocian (Focian?) defense measures was not really mentioned or discussed. And, it seems that "rock throwers" was a part of it although one source might well have translated "rock" as missle?
[url:2ivdvcbk]http://www.livius.org/th/thermopylae/thermopylae4.html%20Ca.%20470%20BCE[/url]
"The early fifth century history of Central Greece is poorly understood, but it is certain that the Thessalians and Phocians were at war "a few years before the Persian invasion" (Herodotus, Histories, 8.27). During this war, the "Phocian Wall" was built at Thermopylae: about 150 meters long, parallel along the road, and offering the Phocians a safe place from which to throw missiles at the invaders."
I hope you noticed that the "Phocian Wall", was not (it seems) built to serve as a block to the road, but as a protected place whereby they could assail the enemy from behind protection, and was, it seems only located on one side of the road! The road itself remained free of obstructions! It seems to me that a defensive work of this type which was (it seems) only 150 metres long could only contain about 300 defenders, or in this case offensive personnel, since it was designed to only "throw missiles at the invaders!" This would mean two missile throwers per metre! I would also ask, just what were the "missiles" that were thrown?
Did the 300 throw rocks?, or did they sling stones?, or did they throw darts (if darts, just what were darts?), etc. It seems that it would be fairly easy to defeat such a defense if they only had rocks, darts, stones, spears, etc. to throw at the attackers who would be in a very narrow defile! The invaders would only have to place protection upon one side of their column and would thus be able to repel attacks of this kind! Mere wooden panels, held alongside of wagons and men and animals would thus receive a lot of protection from such an attack! Is my logic flawed at this point? And just how many missiles were available to be thrown? It seems a determined attacker with enough troops could quickly deplete the missile stores what ever they were if they were only stones, darts, rocks, and spears, etc.!
Just what kind of "missile" could have been used to prevent entry via the road?
The article continues;
"However, the Malians (allies of the Thessalians), discovered the Anopaea path and Thermopylae fell for the first time (Herodotus, Histories, 7.215). The invaders, however, were defeated at Hyampolis and the Phocians were able to free themselves."
The above account is informative in that it mentions that the Phocians reportedly defeated the Malian invaders in a later battle at Hyampolis and recovered their independence. This seems strangely similar to the events after the Spartan Greek stand at Thermopylae?
More about the above can be found here;
[url:2ivdvcbk]http://www.lightfigures.com/numismat/larissa/show.php?page=13[/url]
Oh, as mention of certain historical personages being killed by rocks (millstones?) or tiles, etc., I contend that history is rife with such mentions, certainly one Biblical reference can be remembered, but a good Google Search will uncover many more possibilites!
My regards,
Ron
