Roman Metal Armour-Polished or Dull?

[Paullus Scipio]

Sorry, Matt - I buy it that way...as tubs, like vaseline/petroleum jelly and as a trigger-spray, like window cleaner....I'd have a look at the ingredients but I can't do that right now....my eldest son has taken my supply with him to a mediaeval weekend !!

[M. Demetrius]

Did the Romans make use of petroleum?

I know sometimes it comes oozing up in various ways, at different places, but there's not much oil production in the Mediterranean area, is there? I'm just asking, not arguing. I'm as ignorant as a baby on that topic.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well, I was down off Egypt earlier this year drilling, and I think naptha was known, but not sure if that is a petroleum product or not. Also believe the greeks and even alexander came across it bubbling up here and there.... what they made of it, I have no recollection, :?

But a natural product would be desireable, (not that oil is not natural.....)

[Magnus]

Sorry, Matt - I buy it that way...as tubs, like vaseline/petroleum jelly and as a trigger-spray, like window cleaner....I'd have a look at the ingredients but I can't do that right now....my eldest son has taken my supply with him to a mediaeval weekend !!

No worries paul..it came up this week-end in regards to water proofing a woolen cloak.

Getting back to the orignal thread topic, someone mentioned something that got me thinking this week-end.

In formation for battle, the body of the legionary regardless of era or armour type, is likely going to be covered quite a bit by the shield. If that is the case, do you (anyone) thinks that more attention was paid to the helmet and sheild boss in terms of polishing/shine?

If so, if the carbon content was very low in roman iron/steel, how shiny silver does iron polish to, or does it become a shiny grey/black? If it's more grey/black, maybe the historical references are refering more to the helmets/sheilds, and the artistic use of white/yellow is so the viewer knows it is metal, and not fabric?

That was hard for me to say because I'm all for the satin finish of steel, but truth be told I've never seen just plain iron that has been shined.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

The kalkriese seg was tinned.....or at least some of the buckles I believe.
So shiney would be a byproduct.....and impressive on the field. True the shield would cover most of you in final battle formations, but as you approached and faced off with the enemy, your scuta would be to your side....giving the sad sods facing you a good view of what they don't have...

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

In formation for battle, the body of the legionary regardless of era or armour type, is likely going to be covered quite a bit by the shield. If that is the case, do you (anyone) thinks that more attention was paid to the helmet and sheild boss in terms of polishing/shine?

For all it's worth, Apuleius speaks of a soldier having an exceedingly shiny galea and a glittering scutum (Met. X.1).

[Marcus Caecilius Avitus]

I've tried all sorts of things to stop rust with mixed results. Vegetable and nut oils tend to oxidise and leave a sticky build up on the steel surface.

However, the answer I found was lard hock: yep lard, a thin layer rubbed onto the armour bya hand. The wamth from you hand melts the lard and you can then get a light even layer without white build up.

I also have an 'armour cover'. Paenula shaped piece of oiled leather.

[Magnus]

The kalkriese seg was tinned.....or at least some of the buckles I believe.
So shiney would be a byproduct.....and impressive on the field. True the shield would cover most of you in final battle formations, but as you approached and faced off with the enemy, your scuta would be to your side....giving the sad sods facing you a good view of what they don't have...

Good point Byron. I wonder if all the segs were tinned...makes sense to me to do so given the benefits of it. And fixing dings and scratches would be easy.

Anyone know how available tin was to the Romans?

[Ironhand]

Way to go Fun Machu hock: :wink:
Lard was a commonly used substance to protect metals especially in Northern Europe.
I'm interested in pics of your over armour cover. I'm surprised I have not seen more people make one.

[Tarbicus]

Tallow could also be used to protect the metal, I'd have thought.

Interestingly, I came across this discussion on Linseed oil blueing, but there's a very interesting comment:
"...I remember reading about linseed oil being applied to the finish and making it look like glass in an old time book about browning, IIRC...."
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/inde ... 10443.html

We're assuming the metal had to be polished, burnished or whatever to a high shine, but there are other things you can do to make it gleam, and using ancient ingredients. Then there's another comment which is also interesting:
"...I've heard of a "browning" method by coating polished and preped metal with beef tallow and baking it at about 200-250 F. Sort of like seasoning a piece of cast-iron cookware. It's supposedly very durable and the browned parts won't rust..."

More on the use of natural fats and waxes that led one guy to not needing to clean his muzzle loader for 14 years, and leave it loaded all the time, and it always worked fine.
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php? ... 34.35;wap2

[Matthew Amt]

Anyone know how available tin was to the Romans?

Well, part of the reason for taking Britain was to secure the tin mines in Cornwall. But even before then, tin was pretty readily available since it was needed for all the bronze cookware and other household implements of the time, not to mention helmets, armor, and other military gear (before brass became common).

For untinned metal, most likely there were any number of things used by the Romans. Probably most guys had their favorite oil or grease or wax, or whatever "secret recipe" they liked. As I tell my troops, though, the real secret is not necessarily what you use, the secret is to USE IT. If you sweat all over your armor and put it away without wiping it down, guess what? It rusts!

We've been over the arguments about browning, bluing, or blackening before, and the trouble is that ALL the evidence simply points to shiny metal. You just don't describe something glisteny-brown with the same words you'd use to describe stars or gems or jewelry. Nor do you depict such armor with white or silvery-gray paint.

In the Higgins Armory museum there's an iron meteor that a blacksmith hammered out the end of as an experiment. It's been polished, and it looks like a silver spoon. Not dark at all. Different alloys of iron and steel might have subtly different tones or shades, but they all shine up just fine.

Valete,

Matthew

[Paullus Scipio]

Matt said:-

Do you know how they thin the lanolin by chance?

Byron said

Probably with an alcohol/petroleum substance?

.....good guess, Byron! The ingredients list didn't help at all, so I got in touch with the manufacturer - who told me they use "D-60" ( which was on the ingredient list ) but he wasn't able to tell me what it was !
He did say that any 'evaporative' such as alcohol or turps or white spirit would work well........

[Tarbicus]

We've been over the arguments about browning, bluing, or blackening before, and the trouble is that ALL the evidence simply points to shiny metal. You just don't describe something glisteny-brown with the same words you'd use to describe stars or gems or jewelry. Nor do you depict such armor with white or silvery-gray paint.

Where's this painting of a seg, and I don't think we ever discussed using linseed oil to give a glass like finish (thinking of the Sun reflected in a dark window)?

Limewash was used in medieval times to scrub and cleanse kitchens, and we know the Romans used limewash for finishing buildings (as did the Medievals) which would have had tallow, linseed oil or cassein mixed in to increase water resistance. Anyone know if scrubbing metal with limewash polishes it up?
http://www.openairclassroom.org.uk/Furt ... n-lime.pdf

[Magnus]

Well, part of the reason for taking Britain was to secure the tin mines in Cornwall. But even before then, tin was pretty readily available since it was needed for all the bronze cookware and other household implements of the time, not to mention helmets, armor, and other military gear (before brass became common). Matthew

So they had enough readily available that the majority of their armour could very well have been tinned, including helmets and seggies. Ok, that's what I basically wanted to know.

[Magnus]

Where's this painting of a seg, and I don't think we ever discussed using linseed oil to give a glass like finish (thinking of the Sun reflected in a dark window)?

Limewash was used in medieval times to scrub and cleanse kitchens, and we know the Romans used limewash for finishing buildings (as did the Medievals) which would have had tallow, linseed oil or cassein mixed in to increase water resistance. Anyone know if scrubbing metal with limewash polishes it up?
http://www.openairclassroom.org.uk/Furt ... n-lime.pdf

Maybe they painted their armour white? Wouldn't THAT be cool?